Alcoholism, alcohol related conditions and life insurance.

dunstonh

paulb22 said:

user1977 said:

TELLIT01 said:

The OP says that liver disease isn't included in the life policy.

I'm not sure that's what they mean by "not on it" - I thought they might mean it wasn't declared on the proposal form?

Apologies, I've not been very clear. The alcoholism and the liver disease were not an issue when the policy was taken out and have developed over time.

In the event of a claim, the insurer will look at the GP data on the alcoholism side.  If the policy pre-dates the GP being aware of unit counts etc then it should be fine.   If there is any hint of unit counts on the GP records and being high and that differs from what was disclosed on the application, then that is when trouble can occur.

If the drinker is in the denial stage, they will often lie on applications and that can involve hiding it from their partner.     Not saying that is the case here but it is worth checking what was disclosed on the original application (copies of the disclosure are usually provided for records)

Aretnap

paulb22 said:

user1977 said:

TELLIT01 said:

The OP says that liver disease isn't included in the life policy.

I'm not sure that's what they mean by "not on it" - I thought they might mean it wasn't declared on the proposal form?

Apologies, I've not been very clear. The alcoholism and the liver disease were not an issue when the policy was taken out and have developed over time.

If that's the case, and taking it at face value, he doesn't need to do anything. At least not anything in relation to the life insurance policy. (Obviously getting help with his drink problem would still be a good idea, though I realise that persuading him to do that is easier said than done). As I said there is no duty to inform a life insurer about anything that happens after the policy is taken out. The insurer bases the premium on your health at the time the policy commences, and works out what it thinks the risk of you dying in the next 30 years (or whatever) is. That includes the risk that your health will deteriorated gradually over the next 30 years, as well as the risk that you will suddenly be struck down by a heart attack or a bolt of lightening.

It couldn't actually work any other way. If the insurer could just cancel the policy as soon as it looked like you might be about to pop your clogs (or hike your premium to unaffordable levels, which amounts to the same thing), what would be the point of having it? Effectively it would only cover very sudden deaths, and the large majority of premature deaths are not particularly sudden. So it's a long term policy, with premiums locked in from the start, and there's no need to tell them that you have developed diabetes, or cancer, or started drinking too much after commencement.

As dunstonh says though, the problem arises if he was actually drinking more than he admitted to the insurance company at the time the policy started, especially if there is evidence of this that might come to light in the event of a claim (eg in his medical records).

DullGreyGuy

paulb22 said:

user1977 said:

TELLIT01 said:

The OP says that liver disease isn't included in the life policy.

I'm not sure that's what they mean by "not on it" - I thought they might mean it wasn't declared on the proposal form?

Apologies, I've not been very clear. The alcoholism and the liver disease were not an issue when the policy was taken out and have developed over time.

For Life insurance you declare what conditions you have at the start of the policy, insurer will say if they are covered or not and thats it as long as you keep making payments. There is no need to declare anything that comes along afterwards, thats exactly what the insurer is on risk to cover. 

You can look at exclusions on the policy but they very rarely exclude much these days as so many diseases could arguably be linked to lifestyle etc that every claim would be a battle if they tried excluding indirect self harm. 

Now some people talk about "life insurance" but really mean hybrid Life and Critical Illness which is really two separate coverages glued together. CI only covers a set list of conditions and that may not include alcoholic fatty liver or is subsequent deterioration but that isn't something you can change mid policy. The list is set at inception and stays the same throughout, they only way to change it is to buy a new policy but then anything that you've developed since the last purchase is now pre-existing and is likely to be excluded

tangerine2

My son died of chronic alcohol abuse last December.  He was 52 and had multiple organ failure and encephalopathy.  We didn't know about this until he collapsed with hepatitis and was taken to hospital where tests showed the awful damage.  It's a silent killer. He had been at his job for over 20 years and had a pension/life policy at work.   He was single and had nominated my husband and I and his sister at the time he took it out when he joined.  We didn't know about that either,  He also had a smaller life insurance with another insurance company, which he took out in his previous job.  When I did the paperwork and finances (no Will)  his work Company informed us of the Policy and we Received 50% and our daughter received 50%, no questions asked.  With the previous company we received nothing as he had no children or wife.  Not sure if you are his partner that you would get anything but his children definitely would.  This si one of the reasons when a Marriage certificate is not just a piece of paper.  Just don't mention it.

paulb22

tangerine2 said:

My son died of chronic alcohol abuse last December.  He was 52 and had multiple organ failure and encephalopathy.  We didn't know about this until he collapsed with hepatitis and was taken to hospital where tests showed the awful damage.  It's a silent killer. He had been at his job for over 20 years and had a pension/life policy at work.   He was single and had nominated my husband and I and his sister at the time he took it out when he joined.  We didn't know about that either,  He also had a smaller life insurance with another insurance company, which he took out in his previous job.  When I did the paperwork and finances (no Will)  his work Company informed us of the Policy and we Received 50% and our daughter received 50%, no questions asked.  With the previous company we received nothing as he had no children or wife.  Not sure if you are his partner that you would get anything but his children definitely would.  This si one of the reasons when a Marriage certificate is not just a piece of paper.  Just don't mention it.

Thank you for sharing your story, it was very helpful, and please accept my condolences for your loss. It's awful what alcoholism does to decent people and of course the impact on loved ones is devastating. My daughter's partner is continuing to destroy himself, it's so frustrating and upsetting to watch and not be able to help

Aslan69

I went through something similar with a close relative whose condition developed after their policy was set up. Based on that, insurers generally don’t ask for updates on health after a policy goes live, so long as everything was declared truthfully at the start. If the alcoholism and liver issues weren’t present back then, in most cases the policy should hold up, but the exact wording matters a lot. When we had concerns, we spoke to a solicitor to double-check how the policy wording might be interpreted later by the insurer.

It might also be worth looking into support now, not just down the line for the family’s financial safety. I’ve seen people turn things around after going through structured help programs like the ones offered at www.abbeycarefoundation.com. Could be something to consider if recovery is still on the table.