Refused Flight Delay Compensation

eskbanker

The trouble is, 'aircraft damage' may or may not be a valid reason to deny compensation.

If the aircraft was damaged in some way by maintenance staff, or other contractors for whom the airline retains responsibility, then the airline is on the hook to pay compensation.

However, if the damage was caused by, say, a lightning strike or even being hit by another airline's aircraft, then that's beyond their control and no compensation would be due.

I do agree that they seem evasive, and their citing of recitals 14 and 15 seems bizarre when they make no mention of aircraft damage, so stick with my view that it may be better to go down the CEDR route to tease out the facts, at least initially, court still being an option later on if necessary.

martindow

I think exhausting the options and using CEDR is best.  Judges can take a jaundiced view of claimants who have not tried all other means of getting recompense before going to court, which should be a final resort for resolving claims.

eskbanker

martindow said:

I think exhausting the options and using CEDR is best.  Judges can take a jaundiced view of claimants who have not tried all other means of getting recompense before going to court, which should be a final resort for resolving claims.

Yes, as above I agree - OP doesn't know whether the aircraft damage was caused by events within or outside the airline's control, and it still seems to me that BA's refusal to clarify (in response to a direct and reasonable enquiry) is already something that wouldn't play out well in court, so worth retaining the moral high ground IMHO!

steve111s

The CEDR complaint form requests I should have a 'Final Position' letter. So I'm emailing BA this:-

"FAO: BA Customer Relations

Since it appears that this exchange is going around in circles and that we have reached a position of deadlock. Please provide me with notice that this is your 'Final Position' on this matter so as I may escalate my complaint to CEDR.

Yours sincerely

steve111s" (pseudonym)
edit. Haven't sent this off yet as I found information on the internet. See next post.

steve111s

I've just found this on online:-
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:62014CO0394#:~:text=By way of derogation from,the cancellation is caused by
If I'm reading it correctly, recitals 14 & 15 are merely questions asked during the trial and not definitive answers.
Section 24 at the bottom of the page in bold suggests that recitals 14 & 15 do not apply, quite the opposite.

eskbanker

steve111s said:

I've just found this on online:-
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:62014CO0394#:~:text=By way of derogation from,the cancellation is caused by
If I'm reading it correctly, recitals 14 & 15 are merely questions asked during the trial and not definitive answers.
Section 24 at the bottom of the page in bold suggests that recitals 14 & 15 do not apply, quite the opposite.

Recitals 14 and 15 are simply examples of extraordinary circumstances, rather than a definitive and complete list of all such scenarios, so they didn't play any part in the case you're quoting, as the situation experienced wasn't within those examples, which is why it seemed odd that BA would cite them in response to your enquiry here.

In the case you quote, damage to an aircraft when caused by routine airport operations within the airline's control was deemed not to be extraordinary circumstances, but conversely there's another precedent case where damage caused by a bird strike was considered to be extraordinary circumstances, hence the importance of ascertaining what actually caused the alleged damage to your aircraft.

steve111s

I'm going to reply to BA with the following, does it make sense?

"I note your use of Recital 14 and 15 of EU Regulation 261/2004.

I draw your attention to the case of Ms S. Siewert, Ms E. Siewert and Ms N. Siewert v Condor. Where a set of mobile boarding stairs collided with an aircraft. In which Recitals 14 & 15 are referenced.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:62014CO0394#:~:text=By way of derogation from,the cancellation is caused by

I also draw your attention to the conclusion of the hearing from point 24 at the bottom of the page in bold type:-

"Article 5(3) of Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 February 2004 establishing common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding and of cancellation or long delay of flights, and repealing Regulation (EEC) No 295/91, must be interpreted as meaning that a situation where, as in the case before the referring court, an airport's set of mobile boarding stairs collides with an aircraft CANNOT be categorised as 'extraordinary circumstances' exempting the air carrier from its obligation to pay the passengers compensation in the event of a long delay to a flight operated by that aircraft."

Please either:-

a) Settle my claim in full, or

b) Provide proof of the basic details of the 'aircraft damage' that you claim should be considered as 'extraordinary circumstances', or

c) Accept a state of deadlock and issue a notice of 'Final Position' so as I may escalate my claim to CEDR."

steve111s

Two weeks have passed since I sent the email above (13th Feb) and BA haven't had the courtesy to even acknowledge my email. Absolutely no response. Where do I go from here? Can I go to CEDR without a 'Final Position' letter?

eskbanker

steve111s said:

Two weeks have passed since I sent the email above (13th Feb) and BA haven't had the courtesy to even acknowledge my email. Absolutely no response. Where do I go from here? Can I go to CEDR without a 'Final Position' letter?

You can escalate to CEDR without a final response, if timing out:

At least eight weeks have passed since you first complained to them or you have received a final response (deadlock) letter

It does cost £25 to go to CEDR if unsuccessful though, so, in the absence of any useful information about the actual cause of the alleged aircraft damage, you're gambling on potentially losing that if it turns out that it genuinely was something beyond their control, i.e. it may be worth waiting a bit longer to see whether they respond to your three options.

When choosing to cite that specific precedent case, did you have any reason to believe that the damage was caused by contact with mobile boarding stairs?

steve111s

Success. After 8 weeks of silence I got the following 2 emails:-

"An update from British Airways
I'm sorry for the error made in previous responses.
Thanks for coming back to us regarding the claim of your flight, BA0***, on ******ber 04, 2023.
I'd like to request that you please provide the rebooked flight details so we can proceed further with the request.
Thank you for getting in touch with us. I hope to hear from you soon.
Best regards"

Requested information provided.

And

"An update from British Airways
Thanks for coming back to us regarding the claim of your flight, BA0***, on 04 *****ber 2023.
We’re sorry it was necessary to cancel your flight from Miami on 04 *****ber 2023 and understand why you needed to get in contact about this. We take all reasonable measures to avoid cancelling a flight and we’ll always consider if there are any alternative solutions available before we make a decision. We'd also like to thank you for your patience while we got back to you about this.
I’ve checked the details of your journey and I’m pleased to advise you’re entitled to compensation for the cancellation of your flight, BA0***, on 04 *****ber 2023.
The distance of your disrupted journey was over 3,500km and this has been calculated in accordance with UK law. This means you’re entitled to £520.00 each in compensation.
The total amount of compensation you’re due is £1040.00 as there are two passengers included in your claim. 
The best way to settle your claim is by bank transfer and it would be helpful if you could send me the following information:" Bank details, blah, blah, blah.

Requested information provided.

The compensation is now residing in my account.

I don't know if the Martin Lewis MSE team monitor this forum, but if they want to do some kind of follow up to this situation I'll be glad to assist.

Thanks all
Steve.