Couriers refusing to take responsibility

Jow21

Hi readers

Really hoping someone can give me some advice. I recently sold an item on facebay worth £250. I arranged a courier (Evri) through ParcelCompare and while the item shows as being on the doorstep, the item was subsequently stolen as shown on neighbours CCTV. The doorstep was not a safe place nor did Evri attempt to deliver at another time or with a neighbour as they specify they would on their website (at least 3 attempts). Evri have taken responsibility for this and have sent me an email confirming so, but asked that I contact ParcelCompare as that’s who generated the postage label.

Having contacted ParcelCompare, they’ve stated they can leave parcels on doorsteps and that there is nothing more they can do. 

Granted, I didn’t take out insurance BUT I shouldn’t have to take our insurance for someone’s negligence, should I? 

As far as I’m concerned I paid for a service and they didn’t fulfil it properly, leading to loss of items and money. 

It’s getting increasingly frustrating only being able to contact them through email and waiting 24-48hrs for a response.

What can I do? I feel I am paying for someone else’s mistake when I paid for a service and didn’t get what was promised. 

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated! Thank you 

user1977

So you entered into a contract which says they can leave it on a doorstep? And it had the option of you insuring against the risk of it being nicked?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

user1977 said:

So you entered into a contract which says they can leave it on a doorstep? And it had the option of you insuring against the risk of it being nicked?

Looking at the terms they state

ParcelCompare uses reasonable efforts to make three (3) delivery attempts. Notwithstanding this, You acknowledge that this may not be possible where some destinations and Sub-Contractors are concerned in which case Your Undeliverable Consignment shall be available for collection at a ParcelCompare Depot. ParcelCompare undertakes to deliver to the Delivery Point specified in the Order and the relevant ParcelCompare Documentation, or where the Consignee is not present and a delivery receipt is unobtainable, ParcelCompare may at its discretion attempt to deliver the Consignment to an alternative address (a ‘Substitute Delivery Point’) being either:

that of any person appearing to have authority to accept delivery of the Consignment on the Consignee’s behalf;

that of a neighbour (‘Alternative Address’); and,

that representing a pre-agreed place or discretional place e.g. porch or garage (‘Location’).

I'm not sure they fulfilled the terms*, equally any terms that override the requirements of the CRA are automatically blacklisted so if it were deemed the service was not carried out with due care and skill any terms regardless would be void. 

Regarding "insurance", these places don't sell insurance, they sell parcel cover, OP this thread covers the topic of not paying for cover:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6442661/couriers-lost-parcels-and-unfair-terms

Letter before action and small claims is the way. 

*That term doesn't mention who may agree a place, is that the sender or the recipient. I would also question what the word "pre" means, does it mean before delivery or an agreement at the time the contract was formed whilst noting with both aspects that ambiguity typically favours the party that didn't write the contract.

If the buyer (or person receiving the parcel) didn't divert the parcel to an agreed place of "door step" then I don't see it matters either way as there was no agreement made. 

(I'm assuming the OP didn't expressly state the parcel ma be left on the door step by nominating it as an agreed place). 

ArbitraryRandom

Jow21 said:

Having contacted ParcelCompare, they’ve stated they can leave parcels on doorsteps and that there is nothing more they can do. 

Out of interest, have you asked ParcelCompare where in the terms and conditions you agreed they say that? And have you informed them Evri have admitted fault (I assume in writing)?  

I agree with lunatic, but I would suggest (while your primary contract is certainly with the third party) that you include both the delivery company and the comparison site in any pre-action correspondence and name them both in any claim. 

Essentially, your claim for ParcelCompare is breach of contract, your claim against Evri is breach of contract and negligence... because the T&C on the site explicitly extend the contract to the sub-contractor: 

4.3 ParcelCompare may at its sole discretion, sub-contract all or any part of the ParcelCompare Services to a Sub- Contractor. ParcelCompare contracts on behalf of itself and the ParcelCompare Network, all of whom shall be entitled to the benefit of these terms and who shall have no liability to Customer greater than, or in addition to that of ParcelCompare.

Clauses 16.3 - 16.17 are also... interesting... in terms of their contractual liability. Not sure what there is enforceable. 

Okell

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

... Regarding "insurance", these places don't sell insurance, they sell parcel cover, OP this thread covers the topic of not paying for cover:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6442661/couriers-lost-parcels-and-unfair-terms

Letter before action and small claims is the way...

Strange that...  I was going to link to the exact same thread...      [Edit:  the only issue might be whether or not the OP notified them of the value of the parcel beforehand.  As I recall those cases it was important that the carriers had been notified of the values of the goods sent but accepted them without additional "cover" anyway]

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

... I'm not sure they fulfilled the terms*, equally any terms that override the requirements of the CRA are automatically blacklisted so if it were deemed the service was not carried out with due care and skill any terms regardless would be void...

Yes - assuming they are a consumer - which I assume they are.  [Edit:  looking at their T&Cs they seem to be tailored more towards business customers rather than consumers.  Written by someone who's never read the CRA]

Okell

ArbitraryRandom said:

Jow21 said:

Having contacted ParcelCompare, they’ve stated they can leave parcels on doorsteps and that there is nothing more they can do. 

... I would suggest (while your primary contract is certainly with the third party) that you include both the delivery company and the comparison site in any pre-action correspondence and name them both in any claim. 

Essentially, your claim for ParcelCompare is breach of contract, your claim against Evri is breach of contract and negligence... because the T&C on the site explicitly extend the contract to the sub-contractor: 

4.3 ParcelCompare may at its sole discretion, sub-contract all or any part of the ParcelCompare Services to a Sub- Contractor. ParcelCompare contracts on behalf of itself and the ParcelCompare Network, all of whom shall be entitled to the benefit of these terms and who shall have no liability to Customer greater than, or in addition to that of ParcelCompare...

I think both Evri and ParcelCompare are probably liable in negligence to the OP, but can the terms of a contract between the OP and ParcelCompare make Evri contractually liable to the OP?

Also I think 4.3 purports to give Evri the benefit of the contractual terms between ParcelCompare and the OP, but none of the obligations.   

As per the edit in my previous posts, those T&Cs seem to have been drafted more along the lines of a commercial contract rather than one based on the CRA.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Okell said:[Edit:  the only issue might be whether or not the OP notified them of the value of the parcel beforehand.  As I recall those cases it was important that the carriers had been notified of the values of the goods sent but accepted them without additional "cover" anyway]

Looks like the value field on booking is compulsory (at least for Evri)  

ArbitraryRandom said:

Clauses 16.3 - 16.17 are also... interesting... in terms of their contractual liability. Not sure what there is enforceable. 

That section seems like War and Peace, I thought they was going to run out of letters for 16.8! 

Interestingly 16.3 mentions care and skill, their limit of £50 appears to be their basic level of cover and this principle seems to be what all the other couriers are attempting to work with but hopefully more judgements like the ones in the link will happen if the couriers (or booking companies) opt to defend.  
 

Okell

16 relates to international consignments under the Warsaw/Geneva etc etc Conventions.

16 obviously doesn't apply here (at least I assume it doesn't) but if it was an international consignment, would a consumer contract between UK parties be subject to the terms of those Conventions?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Okell said:

16 relates to international consignments under the Warsaw/Geneva etc etc Conventions.

16 obviously doesn't apply here (at least I assume it doesn't) but if it was an international consignment, would a consumer contract between UK parties be subject to the terms of those Conventions?

I thought the opposite and it only applied when it wasn't an international consignment but I could be misunderstanding?

LIABILITY FOR LOSS AND DAMAGE WHERE CONVENTION RULES DO NOT APPLY

The standard limits on liability in this Clause 16 apply where the Convention Rules do not apply i.e. where there is no “international carriage” involved as defined by the applicable Conventions (and where Customer has not opted to make a declaration and pay a supplementary fee for increased levels of cover in excess of the standard by way of the ParcelCompare Optional Services such as the PREMIUM MBG or Parcel Protection).

ArbitraryRandom

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Okell said:

16 relates to international consignments under the Warsaw/Geneva etc etc Conventions.

16 obviously doesn't apply here (at least I assume it doesn't) but if it was an international consignment, would a consumer contract between UK parties be subject to the terms of those Conventions?

I thought the opposite and it only applied when it wasn't an international consignment but I could be misunderstanding?

LIABILITY FOR LOSS AND DAMAGE WHERE CONVENTION RULES DO NOT APPLY

The standard limits on liability in this Clause 16 apply where the Convention Rules do not apply i.e. where there is no “international carriage” involved as defined by the applicable Conventions (and where Customer has not opted to make a declaration and pay a supplementary fee for increased levels of cover in excess of the standard by way of the ParcelCompare Optional Services such as the PREMIUM MBG or Parcel Protection).

Agreed, my reading was the previous section applies to international shipments and 16 et al apply to domestic. 

Okell

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Okell said:

16 relates to international consignments under the Warsaw/Geneva etc etc Conventions.

16 obviously doesn't apply here (at least I assume it doesn't) but if it was an international consignment, would a consumer contract between UK parties be subject to the terms of those Conventions?

I thought the opposite and it only applied when it wasn't an international consignment but I could be misunderstanding?...

ArbitraryRandom said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Okell said:

16 relates to international consignments under the Warsaw/Geneva etc etc Conventions.

16 obviously doesn't apply here (at least I assume it doesn't) but if it was an international consignment, would a consumer contract between UK parties be subject to the terms of those Conventions?

I thought the opposite and it only applied when it wasn't an international consignment but I could be misunderstanding?

LIABILITY FOR LOSS AND DAMAGE WHERE CONVENTION RULES DO NOT APPLY

The standard limits on liability in this Clause 16 apply where the Convention Rules do not apply i.e. where there is no “international carriage” involved as defined by the applicable Conventions (and where Customer has not opted to make a declaration and pay a supplementary fee for increased levels of cover in excess of the standard by way of the ParcelCompare Optional Services such as the PREMIUM MBG or Parcel Protection).

Agreed, my reading was the previous section applies to international shipments and 16 et al apply to domestic. 

Doh!  That'll teach me to read things properly...