Bought used car from NI in UK - MOT not due?

almostthere1984

Bit puzzled here, bought a 3 year old car from approved used dealer, has been taxed for me but DVLA are waiting for change of keeper form which had to be done via post office so technically the car is registered in trade still. Last owner in NI, I live in England. The moment the DVLA receive the form and update their system its going to show MOT due whereas currently it shows not due till November 24 (NI 4 year rule). Dealership seem to think I can still drive it, DVLA saying I can't because it needs MOT. I don't want to drive it because my understanding is that my insurance would be invalidated? Seems it can't be MOTd early either until DVLA update and see it as registered in England. They say it can take up to 4 weeks to receive and update their systems. The dealer has said they will take the car back and give me a curtousy car whilst waiting, but it's all been a big unnecessary stress, and I'm a bit annoyed the dealer seem unaware of the actual policy. Any thoughts or comments?  

wongataa

Car insurance is not invalidated by a lack of MOT.  Your insurance will state that the car needs to be roadworthy but a car can meet or fail that requirement whatever the MOT status.

almostthere1984

wongataa said:

Car insurance is not invalidated by a lack of MOT.  Your insurance will state that the car needs to be roadworthy but a car can meet or fail that requirement whatever the MOT status.

I'm with Admiral and they state without a valid MOT then it's illegal and my insurance is invalid. Either way I guess the car will need the MOT doing the moment the DVLA update their records, and I can't keep checking every 5 minutes to then book a test and drive immediately over.

jimjames

almostthere1984 said:

wongataa said:

Car insurance is not invalidated by a lack of MOT.  Your insurance will state that the car needs to be roadworthy but a car can meet or fail that requirement whatever the MOT status.

I'm with Admiral and they state without a valid MOT then it's illegal and my insurance is invalid. Either way I guess the car will need the MOT doing the moment the DVLA update their records, and I can't keep checking every 5 minutes to then book a test and drive immediately over.

That's nonsense then. So any car under 3 years old is driven illegally along with any vehicle over 40 years? I found a link on their site that says that but it's not a policy document but a magazine article written by a journalist that then manages to contradict itself by saying it is legal. Only trust your policy docs!

https://www.admiral.com/magazine/guides/motor/diy-jobs-to-help-your-car-pass-its-mot#:~:text=Driving your vehicle or parking,fined up to £1,000.

(the journalist also adds in additional words that are not legal regarding driving to an MOT station)

Why can't you take car for an MOT? As far as I know there is no reason why any vehicle can't have an MOT performed on it regardless of whether it is due on not.

Mildly_Miffed

almostthere1984 said:

wongataa said:

Car insurance is not invalidated by a lack of MOT.  Your insurance will state that the car needs to be roadworthy but a car can meet or fail that requirement whatever the MOT status.

I'm with Admiral and they state without a valid MOT then it's illegal and my insurance is invalid. Either way I guess the car will need the MOT doing the moment the DVLA update their records, and I can't keep checking every 5 minutes to then book a test and drive immediately over.

What's the exact wording?

I have an Admiral policy, and the only mention of MOT in the 49 page policy document is...
"GENERAL CONDITIONS
...
3. Care of your vehicle

You and any other insured person must:
...

* make sure your vehicle is roadworthy

* if applicable, make sure your vehicle has a current MOT certificate

...
Failure to comply with the above could affect the amount you are able to claim, result in the claim being refused and/or your policy being cancelled"

So, no, lack of an MOT does not mean your insurance automatically is invalid.

It is perfectly legal to drive a car without an MOT or tax to and from a pre-booked test, and to drive it to a pre-booked repair after a test fail - so long as it's roadworthy. If it isn't roadworthy, it's illegal to drive even with a current MOT.

You don't need to wait for the V5C keeper change to be processed to book the MOT or take it to it. Although quite why you didn't get the dealer to do it for you as part of the deal...

almostthere1984

jimjames said:

almostthere1984 said:

wongataa said:

Car insurance is not invalidated by a lack of MOT.  Your insurance will state that the car needs to be roadworthy but a car can meet or fail that requirement whatever the MOT status.

I'm with Admiral and they state without a valid MOT then it's illegal and my insurance is invalid. Either way I guess the car will need the MOT doing the moment the DVLA update their records, and I can't keep checking every 5 minutes to then book a test and drive immediately over.

That's nonsense then. So any car under 3 years old is driven illegally along with any vehicle over 40 years? I found a link on their site that says that but it's not a policy document but a magazine article written by a journalist that then manages to contradict itself by saying it is legal. Only trust your policy docs!

https://www.admiral.com/magazine/guides/motor/diy-jobs-to-help-your-car-pass-its-mot#:~:text=Driving your vehicle or parking,fined up to £1,000.

(the journalist also adds in additional words that are not legal regarding driving to an MOT station)

Why can't you take car for an MOT? As far as I know there is no reason why any vehicle can't have an MOT performed on it regardless of whether it is due on not.

If it already has an MOT yes you can MOT it again whenever, but it hasn't had it's first MOT yet and according to DVLA you can't MOT it until 1 month before it's due. They are going to collect it today and try to MOT it, but they are not sure if the VOSA system will allow it or not. The car is 3 years and 3 months old so in NI it's not due until November, but as soon as the DVLA get the form through it'll say no MOT as it will become registered in England under the 3 year MOT rule.

almostthere1984

Mildly_Miffed said:

almostthere1984 said:

wongataa said:

Car insurance is not invalidated by a lack of MOT.  Your insurance will state that the car needs to be roadworthy but a car can meet or fail that requirement whatever the MOT status.

I'm with Admiral and they state without a valid MOT then it's illegal and my insurance is invalid. Either way I guess the car will need the MOT doing the moment the DVLA update their records, and I can't keep checking every 5 minutes to then book a test and drive immediately over.

What's the exact wording?

I have an Admiral policy, and the only mention of MOT in the 49 page policy document is...
"GENERAL CONDITIONS
...
3. Care of your vehicle

You and any other insured person must:
...

* make sure your vehicle is roadworthy

* if applicable, make sure your vehicle has a current MOT certificate

...
Failure to comply with the above could affect the amount you are able to claim, result in the claim being refused and/or your policy being cancelled"

So, no, lack of an MOT does not mean your insurance automatically is invalid.

It is perfectly legal to drive a car without an MOT or tax to and from a pre-booked test, and to drive it to a pre-booked repair after a test fail - so long as it's roadworthy. If it isn't roadworthy, it's illegal to drive even with a current MOT.

You don't need to wait for the V5C keeper change to be processed to book the MOT or take it to it. Although quite why you didn't get the dealer to do it for you as part of the deal...

The dealer was going to do it, but then said oh you don't need it you've got until November. That's when i got curious and called the DVLA. They are planning to pick it up today and try to MOT it, if they can't then they'll have to give me another car until they can. As I said I'm just frustrated by the whole situation!

Bigwheels1111

£55 puts this thread to bed.

Get an mot and your done.

You think its an issue now, its not.

But it is.

The police will not understand or have enough intelligence to understand.

My case and point.

I have a friend who builds Kit cars, Some are regestered as NEW Cars.

Some with age related reg plates.

A few owners got stopped and told they need an Mot, Even showing plod the V5 which states first regestered 1 month ago as new for eg, they were told they are breaking the law and will be summond to court.

Ticket issued, at some point further up the chain, a person with a brain steps in and stops the ticket, but not the issue.

As plod are to dumb to understand and change.

When you come to sell the car do you want to repeat this story to evey buyer interested in you car.

Because I would check its mot history and see the first one issued at 4 years old, I would think thats not right and just move on to the next car.

almostthere1984

Bigwheels1111 said:

£55 puts this thread to bed.

Get an mot and your done.

You think its an issue now, its not.

But it is.

The police will not understand or have enough intelligence to understand.

My case and point.

I have a friend who builds Kit cars, Some are regestered as NEW Cars.

Some with age related reg plates.

A few owners got stopped and told they need an Mot, Even showing plod the V5 which states first regestered 1 month ago as new for eg, they were told they are breaking the law and will be summond to court.

Ticket issued, at some point further up the chain, a person with a brain steps in and stops the ticket, but not the issue.

As plod are to dumb to understand and change.

When you come to sell the car do you want to repeat this story to evey buyer interested in you car.

Because I would check its mot history and see the first one issued at 4 years old, I would think thats not right and just move on to the next car.

That's my feeling exactly, hence why I didn't want to take a chance driving it. It was only delivered to me on Monday, and the dealer to be fair are willing to get it resolved. I just wondered if I was being overly cautious. Also, insurers will look for any loophole/clause to get out of paying if the worst were to happen. Just annoyed having a lovely car sat on my drive I don't feel happy to use yet!

Mildly_Miffed

almostthere1984 said:

but it hasn't had it's first MOT yet and according to DVLA you can't MOT it until 1 month before it's due.

Ah, I see the confusion.

You can test any car any time. You can test it the day it's brand new, and/or every single day, if you feel so inclined.

BUT... if you want the new MOT to be 12 months from the expiry date of the previous test, or 36mo from the date of first reg (48mo in NI), then you need to do it within a month of that previous expiry.

If you test it today, the expiry will be 12mo time.

If it'd been tested 2yr and 11mo after it was new, the test would be the fourth birthday of the registration.

almostthere1984

Mildly_Miffed said:

almostthere1984 said:

but it hasn't had it's first MOT yet and according to DVLA you can't MOT it until 1 month before it's due.

Ah, I see the confusion.

You can test any car any time. You can test it the day it's brand new, and/or every single day, if you feel so inclined.

BUT... if you want the new MOT to be 12 months from the expiry date of the previous test, or 36mo from the date of first reg (48mo in NI), then you need to do it within a month of that previous expiry.

If you test it today, the expiry will be 12mo time.

If it'd been tested 2yr and 11mo after it was new, the test would be the fourth birthday of the registration.

I hope that's the case, then they can get it tested today and be done with it. I think the main issue that caused confusion is that it was tax exempt previously because the last owner was disabled, had it not been for that they could have done the change of owner and tax online in the office which would have immediately brought their attention to the fact it was due an MOT, but DVLA said it has to be done at the post office.