PS24 LTD, Gladstones court claim, WS stage 2025

azqw204

Coupon-mad said:

the claimant Parking Solutions 24 Ltd. the acting solicitor is Gladstones

The registered keeper was out of the country at the time of alleged offence.

I would’ve thought that was sufficient, have I misunderstood anything? 

Yes if they didn't comply with the POFA then they can't hold you liable.

You can win this with a decent WS and evidence.

Please show us exactly what the remaining paragraphs 9-12 of your defence said?

Which Judge and which court struck out part of your defence but failed to strike out the claim, which doesn't even plead the breach?!

Those paragraphs are as follows:

8.    The alleged parking breach occurred on 21st and 22nd of June in 2023. On the date of 20 June 2023, the defendant and their family had boarded a flight to Antalya in Turkey. They returned from vacation on 24th June 2023. The defendant was not in the country during that time and, to the defendant’s knowledge, vehicle in question was parked outside the family home. 

9.    The defendant does not recognise the mentioned car park, the area or the town in which the alleged parking breach occurred. The defendant has never used this car park and they are unsure why it would appear that their car has been parked in the Salford area at all. 

10. No letters have been received regarding the alleged PCN’s by the defendant before the claim form. 

11. At witness statement stage, the defendant will provide copies of boarding passes as proof of being out of the country.

I’ll take a look into what the POFA rules are and how they could have breaches them. 

Also, I didn’t get any of the letters prior to the court letters so I couldn’t appeal before hand.

I intend to submit flight details, boarding passes and family photos with the iphone timestamps. Could that be enough?

Think I’d struggle to get photos outside our house due to the length of time elapsed since.

It has been allocated to the small claims track by District Judge Clarke at Burnley County Court.

azqw204

Coupon-mad said:

the claimant Parking Solutions 24 Ltd. the acting solicitor is Gladstones

The registered keeper was out of the country at the time of alleged offence.

I would’ve thought that was sufficient, have I misunderstood anything? 

Yes if they didn't comply with the POFA then they can't hold you liable.

You can win this with a decent WS and evidence.

Please show us exactly what the remaining paragraphs 9-12 of your defence said?

Which Judge and which court struck out part of your defence but failed to strike out the claim, which doesn't even plead the breach?!

Having read the POFA rules, if I’d received the initial letters I could have appealed earlier and avoided all this stress!

Gr1pr

Please change the thread title to something more suitable like 

PS24 LTD, Gladstones court claim,  WS stage 2025

Or similar 

If the letters did go to your old address ( your parents address   ) then you would have had access to them, so I wouldnt make too much about so called missing paperwork,  it appears to be a suitable address for the service of papers,  especially if that is, or was,  the official address on the dvla database ( and on the V5c log book )

Nobody mentioned that PS24 LTD were in breach of POFA2012 rules, they can ignore POFA2012 requirements completely,  there is no breach 

Read the previous advice again,  you are hopefully defending as the non driving,  on holiday,  keeper

If PS24 LTD failed to comply with Pofa,  then as the non driving,  on holiday,  keeper,  you have no legal liability 

This isn't about PS24 breaching rules,  it's about non compliance with a law by which they could hold the keeper liable,  by being able to use that law to transfer the driver liability to the keeper 

However,  if they did fully comply with Pofa2012,  then you may be liable as the keeper , even if you were in Antalya,  Lara Beach, Side, Alanya , Manavgat, Belek or a similar location,  or even in Timbuktu

So if they failed to comply with Pofa2012,  then their ability to hold you responsible and liable should go into the nearest bin, especially with your WS + evidence etc, so hopefully they will either discontinue or get whipped in court 

azqw204

Gr1pr said:

Please change the thread title to something more suitable like 

PS24 LTD, Gladstones court claim,  WS stage 2025

Or similar 

If the letters did go to your old address ( your parents address   ) then you would have had access to them, so I wouldnt make too much about so called missing paperwork,  it appears to be a suitable address for the service of papers,  especially if that is, or was,  the official address on the dvla database ( and on the V5c log book )

Nobody mentioned that PS24 LTD were in breach of POFA2012 rules, they can ignore POFA2012 requirements completely,  there is no breach 

Read the previous advice again,  you are hopefully defending as the non driving,  on holiday,  keeper

If PS24 LTD failed to comply with Pofa,  then as the non driving,  on holiday,  keeper,  you have no legal liability 

This isn't about PS24 breaching rules,  it's about non compliance with a law by which they could hold the keeper liable,  by being able to use that law to transfer the driver liability to the keeper 

However,  if they did fully comply with Pofa2012,  then you may be liable as the keeper , even if you were in Antalya,  Lara Beach, Side, Alanya , Manavgat, Belek or a similar location,  or even in Timbuktu

So if they failed to comply with Pofa2012,  then their ability to hold you responsible and liable should go into the nearest bin, especially with your WS + evidence etc, so hopefully they will either discontinue or get whipped in court 

I agree - entirely my fault that the address on my V5 wasn’t up to date.

So if I’ve understood what you’re saying correctly, I’m at the mercy of hoping that PS24 or Gladstone Solicitors has made a mistake - in following the correct guidelines- in attempting to enforce the liability on the keeper.

If the car number plate was cloned and used in this instance, how can something like this be used as evidence?

Gr1pr

Yes, you seem to be getting the idea, based on what was allowed in your defence statement,  it's about keeper liability versus no keeper liability 

If keeper liability is established,  then your case is about where was your vehicle on the incident date 

So I assume that you will be asserting that it was at your house with the keys safely stored in the property,  that it wasnt where they allege it was, that you have no idea why they say different and putting them to strict proof 

If its a clone then hopefully you have a crime number as evidence that it's been reported to the police 

A different vehicle wearing the same number plate is still not your actual vehicle,  VIN numbers would be different number plates are easily changed or altered 

You need to focus on the core arguments here,  remembering that they have to prove their case, whereas you dont have to prove anything at all, but your WS plus your Exhibits,  plus your whereabouts form a part of your defence 

Concentrate on putting a good bundle together,  based on what you know and can prove 

Dont waste your time on missing paperwork,  addresses etc, remember that they obtained dvla details and will have posted letters to that address,  that was all they were obliged to do,  not prove delivery,  not prove that they had been opened and Read etc

Ps, I have just come back from Antalya,  my vehicle was left securely locked up on my driveway,  with the keys safely stored in my safe,  inside my property,  for the duration of my holiday 

If PS24 LTD or another parking company send me an NTK PCN letter to my address alleging that it was in Salford or parked outside Buckingham Palace,  my WS arguments , like my defence,  would be,  no it wasn't,  it was on my drive,  securely locked and never left the property , plus I wasn't the driver because I was in Alanya in Turkey,  with flight tickets etc to prove my innocence 

An added bonus would be no keeper liability under POFA2012, if the parking company hadn't complied with POFA,  


Lastly, please edit your thread title to something more suitable 

Coupon-mad

Coupon-mad said:

Coupon-mad said:

You could add what I advised this person:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80573503/#Comment_80573503

And you could add that you do not believe that the requirements for 'keeper liability' have been met.

Have you added both of the above?

Have you now signed, dated & emailed it and got the silly acknowledgement email?

On 13th February 2024 I stated the above. Did you add what I advised to add?

The Judge has let you retain paras 9-12 of your defence, not 8-11.

Show us what you had in paras 9-12.

azqw204 said:

If the car number plate was cloned and used in this instance, how can something like this be used as evidence?

If the VRM was cloned you'll see it in their photos at this next stage: WS & evidence.

You will also see if the PCN had POFA wording in their evidence pack (we can check).

Presumably your hearing order (if you have a date now) gives both parties the same deadline to file & serve WS & evidence?

You can also attach a skeleton argument to properly bring Chan and Akande back in.

Coupon-mad

azqw204 said:

Coupon-mad said:

the claimant Parking Solutions 24 Ltd. the acting solicitor is Gladstones

The registered keeper was out of the country at the time of alleged offence.

I would’ve thought that was sufficient, have I misunderstood anything? 

Yes if they didn't comply with the POFA then they can't hold you liable.

You can win this with a decent WS and evidence.

Please show us exactly what the remaining paragraphs 9-12 of your defence said?

Which Judge and which court struck out part of your defence but failed to strike out the claim, which doesn't even plead the breach?!

Having read the POFA rules, if I’d received the initial letters I could have appealed earlier and avoided all this stress!

No because the appeals are a farce. This is a rotten industry.

Gr1pr

Coupon-mad said:

azqw204 said:

Coupon-mad said:

the claimant Parking Solutions 24 Ltd. the acting solicitor is Gladstones

The registered keeper was out of the country at the time of alleged offence.

I would’ve thought that was sufficient, have I misunderstood anything? 

Yes if they didn't comply with the POFA then they can't hold you liable.

You can win this with a decent WS and evidence.

Please show us exactly what the remaining paragraphs 9-12 of your defence said?

Which Judge and which court struck out part of your defence but failed to strike out the claim, which doesn't even plead the breach?!

Having read the POFA rules, if I’d received the initial letters I could have appealed earlier and avoided all this stress!

No because the appeals are a farce. This is a rotten industry.

Agreed,  there was almost zero chance of any appeal succeeding,  so you would still be at this stage,  so concentrate on the case,  not ancient history