Package holiday - company have changed accomodation

Pollycat

peterearl said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I wonder whether, especially given the time constraints, the OP might be better to look for available hotels via the Travel Republic website that the OP would consider suitable and then offer those suggestions to TR.  Given an open question may be slow and, as we've seem already, what TR consider a "suitable alternative" may not match with what the OP considers a "suitable alternative".  It is quite difficult for another individual working at TR to second-guess the priorities of the OP.

Grumpy_chap said:

I wonder whether, especially given the time constraints, the OP might be better to look for available hotels via the Travel Republic website that the OP would consider suitable and then offer those suggestions to TR.  Given an open question may be slow and, as we've seem already, what TR consider a "suitable alternative" may not match with what the OP considers a "suitable alternative".  It is quite difficult for another individual working at TR to second-guess the priorities of the OP.

Thanks, we booked self catering and currently there is only one that comes up on TR website for our dates and resort and just for the hotel it's more than double the cost of our original package of flights and hotel, TR will be aware that it's available and they've not offered it.

In your original post you said you'd booked a hotel.
If you did book a hotel, did that room have self catering facilities?

For short-haul holidays, I book self catering rooms.
I would feel it a significant change from s/c to room only.

We just like to have a fridge but some people do rely on self catering facilities to reduce their holiday spend.

HillStreetBlues

Pollycat said:

peterearl said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I wonder whether, especially given the time constraints, the OP might be better to look for available hotels via the Travel Republic website that the OP would consider suitable and then offer those suggestions to TR.  Given an open question may be slow and, as we've seem already, what TR consider a "suitable alternative" may not match with what the OP considers a "suitable alternative".  It is quite difficult for another individual working at TR to second-guess the priorities of the OP.

Grumpy_chap said:

I wonder whether, especially given the time constraints, the OP might be better to look for available hotels via the Travel Republic website that the OP would consider suitable and then offer those suggestions to TR.  Given an open question may be slow and, as we've seem already, what TR consider a "suitable alternative" may not match with what the OP considers a "suitable alternative".  It is quite difficult for another individual working at TR to second-guess the priorities of the OP.

Thanks, we booked self catering and currently there is only one that comes up on TR website for our dates and resort and just for the hotel it's more than double the cost of our original package of flights and hotel, TR will be aware that it's available and they've not offered it.

In your original post you said you'd booked a hotel.
If you did book a hotel, did that room have self catering facilities?

For short-haul holidays, I book self catering rooms.
I would feel it a significant change from s/c to room only.

We just like to have a fridge but some people do rely on self catering facilities to reduce their holiday spend.

Totally agree.
I go self catering, would never go room only.

peterearl

eskbanker said:

peterearl said:
I'm pretty sure that changing from self catering to room only would be considered a significant change as it changes the whole nature of the holiday.

Not sure I'm following that line of argument - surely those are two identical meal plans as far as the PTRs are concerned (i.e. none), although obviously if one has cooking facilities and the other doesn't then that probably would be deemed a significant change?  You seemed reluctant to countenance a move from a hotel to an apartment initially though (over and above the different location)?

Anyway, going back to the main issue, one other aspect perhaps worth factoring into your thinking is that, as well as significant changes (in features, location, etc), any price increase of more than 8% triggers the full refund rights too, so if they're unable to find something comparable within 108% of your package cost, they can't force it on you....

Reluctant yes because we chose a hotel with a room with self catering so we could prepare some of our own meals - we are both vegetarian and eating out all of the time for every meal can be difficult - Spain/Canaries is not as vegetarian friendly as you might think unless you want pizza, pasta or omelette. - without self catering we'd be forced to eat out for all meals which would also be expensive. The hotel we chose also had a bar, pool bar and nightly entertainment - the apartment offered has no self catering, has no bar, no pool bar and no entertainment as well as being in a different resort. No entertainment means also seeking this out at night - I know some people would prefer this but it's not the holiday we chose. 
That last point of information is really worth knowing - thank you.

peterearl

Pollycat said:

peterearl said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I wonder whether, especially given the time constraints, the OP might be better to look for available hotels via the Travel Republic website that the OP would consider suitable and then offer those suggestions to TR.  Given an open question may be slow and, as we've seem already, what TR consider a "suitable alternative" may not match with what the OP considers a "suitable alternative".  It is quite difficult for another individual working at TR to second-guess the priorities of the OP.

Grumpy_chap said:

I wonder whether, especially given the time constraints, the OP might be better to look for available hotels via the Travel Republic website that the OP would consider suitable and then offer those suggestions to TR.  Given an open question may be slow and, as we've seem already, what TR consider a "suitable alternative" may not match with what the OP considers a "suitable alternative".  It is quite difficult for another individual working at TR to second-guess the priorities of the OP.

Thanks, we booked self catering and currently there is only one that comes up on TR website for our dates and resort and just for the hotel it's more than double the cost of our original package of flights and hotel, TR will be aware that it's available and they've not offered it.

In your original post you said you'd booked a hotel.
If you did book a hotel, did that room have self catering facilities?

For short-haul holidays, I book self catering rooms.
I would feel it a significant change from s/c to room only.

We just like to have a fridge but some people do rely on self catering facilities to reduce their holiday spend.

Yes, it was a hotel in a room with self catering, the hotel had a bar, pool bar and nightly entertainment none of which are provided with the apartment offered which is "room only" and also in a different resort. I think TR have conceded that it's a significant change as they offered to refund for the accommodation, the issue is they won't refund the flights even though I'm certain they are obliged to under The Package Travel and Linked Ravel arrangements Regulations 2018 and in accordance with their own terms and conditions.

peterearl

eskbanker said:

peterearl said:
I'm pretty sure that changing from self catering to room only would be considered a significant change as it changes the whole nature of the holiday.

Not sure I'm following that line of argument - surely those are two identical meal plans as far as the PTRs are concerned (i.e. none), although obviously if one has cooking facilities and the other doesn't then that probably would be deemed a significant change?  You seemed reluctant to countenance a move from a hotel to an apartment initially though (over and above the different location)?

Anyway, going back to the main issue, one other aspect perhaps worth factoring into your thinking is that, as well as significant changes (in features, location, etc), any price increase of more than 8% triggers the full refund rights too, so if they're unable to find something comparable within 108% of your package cost, they can't force it on you....

New information (to meat at least).Further down in their T&Cs under a separate heading of "Flights" it says  "In general, flights booked through Travel Republic are non-refundable" although I can't see how this would nullify the 2018 regs, however, after a lot of searching I've also found this website which suggests that in relation to significant changes the flights would not be refundable, quote " In some instances, the organiser may not be able to resell a travel service and it could be justifiable to not reimburse the traveller. For example, if the organiser cannot cancel an air ticket (common with economy class tickets) and, therefore cannot resell it, it would be justifiable to not reimburse the price of the ticket."

https://www.businesscompanion.info/focus/practical-holiday-law/section-3-information-requirements#CancellationandsignificantchangerequirementsunderthePackageTravelandLinkedTravelArrangementsRegulations2018

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

peterearl said:

eskbanker said:

peterearl said:
I'm pretty sure that changing from self catering to room only would be considered a significant change as it changes the whole nature of the holiday.

Not sure I'm following that line of argument - surely those are two identical meal plans as far as the PTRs are concerned (i.e. none), although obviously if one has cooking facilities and the other doesn't then that probably would be deemed a significant change?  You seemed reluctant to countenance a move from a hotel to an apartment initially though (over and above the different location)?

Anyway, going back to the main issue, one other aspect perhaps worth factoring into your thinking is that, as well as significant changes (in features, location, etc), any price increase of more than 8% triggers the full refund rights too, so if they're unable to find something comparable within 108% of your package cost, they can't force it on you....

New information (to meat at least).Further down in their T&Cs under a separate heading of "Flights" it says  "In general, flights booked through Travel Republic are non-refundable" although I can't see how this would nullify the 2018 regs, however, after a lot of searching I've also found this website which suggests that in relation to significant changes the flights would not be refundable, quote " In some instances, the organiser may not be able to resell a travel service and it could be justifiable to not reimburse the traveller. For example, if the organiser cannot cancel an air ticket (common with economy class tickets) and, therefore cannot resell it, it would be justifiable to not reimburse the price of the ticket."

https://www.businesscompanion.info/focus/practical-holiday-law/section-3-information-requirements#CancellationandsignificantchangerequirementsunderthePackageTravelandLinkedTravelArrangementsRegulations2018

I think that section on the linked page is talking about 2 things, the first 3 paragraphs cover significant changes, the rest, which includes your bit quoted, talks about cancellation fees and such so I believe this is referring to the consumer breaching the contract and being liable for costs rather than significant changes. 

Grumpy_chap

peterearl said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I wonder whether, especially given the time constraints, the OP might be better to look for available hotels via the Travel Republic website that the OP would consider suitable and then offer those suggestions to TR.  Given an open question may be slow and, as we've seem already, what TR consider a "suitable alternative" may not match with what the OP considers a "suitable alternative".  It is quite difficult for another individual working at TR to second-guess the priorities of the OP.

Thanks, we booked self catering and currently there is only one that comes up on TR website for our dates and resort and just for the hotel it's more than double the cost of our original package of flights and hotel, TR will be aware that it's available and they've not offered it.

I don't see that you can lose anything by asking TR to provide the "suitable alternative" accommodation that you found (and at no additional cost to you).  
TR might just say "no".
TR might agree the change but with a lower level of payment from you for what TR consider to be an "upgrade".

I am thinking that there is a time constraint here for both parties.
The OP is due to travel in a fortnight and, without the TR situation resolved, the risk is the OP still has the flights but has no accommodation.
If TR have rooms in the more expensive accommodation they might, by now, be concluding that filling the room is better than leaving empty.
The time factors works for both sides here.

This is a pragmatic conversation that might be had, not necessarily what "should" happen.

eskbanker

peterearl said:

New information (to meat at least).Further down in their T&Cs under a separate heading of "Flights" it says  "In general, flights booked through Travel Republic are non-refundable" although I can't see how this would nullify the 2018 regs

Contract Ts & Cs can't override regulations, so your statutory rights remain unaffected even if TR tried to negate them, although in this case I believe that section relates specifically to flight-only bookings rather than packages anyway, although the structure of the document isn't well presented.

I agree with lunatic's interpretation of the (lack of) significance of the external document, also clumsily worded!

Grumpy_chap said:

I am thinking that there is a time constraint here for both parties.
The OP is due to travel in a fortnight and, without the TR situation resolved, the risk is the OP still has the flights but has no accommodation.
If TR have rooms in the more expensive accommodation they might, by now, be concluding that filling the room is better than leaving empty.
The time factors works for both sides here.

I don't think that TR have rooms to fill as such, in that I believe the model employed by such companies is to buy rooms as needed from third party intermediaries, and hence their earlier reference to "Please advise therefore if you are happy for us to cancel the accommodation only, or if you would like us to await an alternative accommodation from the Supplier".

Grumpy_chap

eskbanker said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I am thinking that there is a time constraint here for both parties.
The OP is due to travel in a fortnight and, without the TR situation resolved, the risk is the OP still has the flights but has no accommodation.
If TR have rooms in the more expensive accommodation they might, by now, be concluding that filling the room is better than leaving empty.
The time factors works for both sides here.

I don't think that TR have rooms to fill as such, in that I believe the model employed by such companies is to buy rooms as needed from third party intermediaries, and hence their earlier reference to "Please advise therefore if you are happy for us to cancel the accommodation only, or if you would like us to await an alternative accommodation from the Supplier".

OK - I guess if that alternative accommodation has empty rooms and only two weeks to go, the accommodation supplier might prefer to fill at low rate than empty at no rate...

I am unclear as to what the OP will do if the current impasse of flights but no accommodation is not resolved before the scheduled travel date:
 - travel and arrange separate accommodation
 - travel and accept the alternative offered by TR
 - not travel

peterearl

Grumpy_chap said:

eskbanker said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I am thinking that there is a time constraint here for both parties.
The OP is due to travel in a fortnight and, without the TR situation resolved, the risk is the OP still has the flights but has no accommodation.
If TR have rooms in the more expensive accommodation they might, by now, be concluding that filling the room is better than leaving empty.
The time factors works for both sides here.

I don't think that TR have rooms to fill as such, in that I believe the model employed by such companies is to buy rooms as needed from third party intermediaries, and hence their earlier reference to "Please advise therefore if you are happy for us to cancel the accommodation only, or if you would like us to await an alternative accommodation from the Supplier".

OK - I guess if that alternative accommodation has empty rooms and only two weeks to go, the accommodation supplier might prefer to fill at low rate than empty at no rate...

I am unclear as to what the OP will do if the current impasse of flights but no accommodation is not resolved before the scheduled travel date:
 - travel and arrange separate accommodation
 - travel and accept the alternative offered by TR
 - not travel

Probably arrange our own flights and accommodation on different dates - being stuck with flights on 3rd March and being so near to the date makes it nigh on impossible to find anything - and claim a full refund back.