Package holiday - company have changed accomodation

eskbanker

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

I was thinking along the lines of "main features" (paragraph 5 of Schedule 1), I would have thought a place that actively caters to stag dos would be a main feature over one that doesn't. 

Sounds tenuous to me to be honest - in the context of the characteristics listed in schedule 1, my understanding is that 'main features' would be more like fundamental amenities such as restaurants, swimming pools, gym, etc, rather than target demographic of customers, but it isn't clear from OP just how 'actively' (and exclusively) the hotel aims for such groups?

peterearl

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

I was thinking along the lines of "main features" (paragraph 5 of Schedule 1), I would have thought a place that actively caters to stag dos would be a main feature over one that doesn't. 

Thank you, I hadn't seen that part of the regulation. There isn't anything that says they cater for stag do's but this is how Travel Republic describe the hotel: 

"WHO IS IT GREAT FOR?

Visitors recommend the Piramides Resort for groups of friends and couples. The property attracts a younger crowd and is close to many of the local nightlife destinations."

Many Tripadvisor reviews and reviews on Travel Republics own page advise that the hotel is not suitable for older guests.

eskbanker

Which hotel had you originally booked?

peterearl

I guess one of the most important parts of my question is, if they can't provide suitable alternative accommodation can I cancel the whole package and get a full refund including for the flight? Travel Republic are insisting that they won't refund the flight even if they can't provide suitable alternative accommodation.

eskbanker

peterearl said:

I guess one of the most important parts of my question is, if they can't provide suitable alternative accommodation can I cancel the whole package and get a full refund including for the flight? Travel Republic are insisting that they won't refund the flight even if they can't provide suitable alternative accommodation.

If they propose a significant change then you have the right to a full refund, under the Package Travel Regulations, as linked earlier, but if they propose a change that isn't deemed significant then you don't have that right.

So if they'd only offered you the apartment in a different resort then you'd have been legally entitled to a full refund, despite their reluctance - you may have need to acquire it via your bank or even a court though.

However, once they offered something objectively comparable (not necessarily what you'd deem 'suitable') then you lose that right, unless you can make the case that the main features of the new hotel are significantly different from those of the original one.

HillStreetBlues

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/i-have-to-cancel-my-package-holiday-what-are-my-rights-adFJY7e7jyjH

When can I cancel my package holiday without paying fees?

This can include a change to one or more of the following:

• The precise accommodation, standard of accommodation and accommodation facilities
• The type and standard of transport
• The place of departure and destination
• Any facility or service advertised or promoted as forming a part of the package

The "precise accommodation" has been changed, so  according to Which you can cancel for free.

eskbanker

HillStreetBlues said:

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/i-have-to-cancel-my-package-holiday-what-are-my-rights-adFJY7e7jyjH

When can I cancel my package holiday without paying fees?

This can include a change to one or more of the following:

• The precise accommodation, standard of accommodation and accommodation facilities
• The type and standard of transport
• The place of departure and destination
• Any facility or service advertised or promoted as forming a part of the package

The "precise accommodation" has been changed, so  according to Which you can cancel for free.

Great, so Which will be happy to refund OP for something that the legislation itself doesn't entitle him to recover from the package provider?

HillStreetBlues

eskbanker said:

HillStreetBlues said:

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/i-have-to-cancel-my-package-holiday-what-are-my-rights-adFJY7e7jyjH

When can I cancel my package holiday without paying fees?

This can include a change to one or more of the following:

• The precise accommodation, standard of accommodation and accommodation facilities
• The type and standard of transport
• The place of departure and destination
• Any facility or service advertised or promoted as forming a part of the package

The "precise accommodation" has been changed, so  according to Which you can cancel for free.

Great, so Which will be happy to refund OP for something that the legislation itself doesn't entitle him to recover from the package provider?

Would have to ask Which
They might ask you to show where in the legislation that a change of accommodation isn't significant

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

eskbanker said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

I was thinking along the lines of "main features" (paragraph 5 of Schedule 1), I would have thought a place that actively caters to stag dos would be a main feature over one that doesn't. 

Sounds tenuous to me to be honest - in the context of the characteristics listed in schedule 1, my understanding is that 'main features' would be more like fundamental amenities such as restaurants, swimming pools, gym, etc, rather than target demographic of customers, but it isn't clear from OP just how 'actively' (and exclusively) the hotel aims for such groups?

I was thinking of this in reverse, i,e if you booked a place that caters to stag dos and was moved to one that doesn't that seems reasonable as a "main feature" and then the opposite would be true. 

OP if you can name the two hotels it might help with options  

eskbanker

HillStreetBlues said:

eskbanker said:

HillStreetBlues said:

The "precise accommodation" has been changed, so  according to Which you can cancel for free.

Great, so Which will be happy to refund OP for something that the legislation itself doesn't entitle him to recover from the package provider?

Would have to ask Which
They might ask you to show where in the legislation that a change of accommodation isn't significant

The legislation is there for all to see, but the point is that Which have chosen to paraphrase it, given that it makes no mention of any invented phrase such as "the precise accommodation".

The regulations define a significant change (rather circularly) as "to alter significantly any of the main characteristics of the travel services specified in paragraphs 1 to 10 of Schedule 1", which in turn comprise:

1.  The main characteristics of the travel services specified in paragraphs 2 to 10.

2.  The travel destination, the itinerary and periods of stay, with dates and, where accommodation is included, the number of nights included.

3.  The means, characteristics and categories of transport, the points, dates and time of departure and return, the duration and places of intermediate stops and transport connections.

4.  Where the exact time of departure and return is not yet determined, the organiser and, where applicable, the retailer, must inform the traveller of the approximate time of departure and return.

5.  The location, main features and, where applicable, tourist category of the accommodation under the rules of the country of destination.

6.  The meals which are included in the package.

7.  The visits, excursions or other services included in the total price agreed for the package.

8.  Where it is not apparent from the context, whether any of the travel services are to be provided to the traveller as part of a group and, if so, where possible, the approximate size of the group.

9.  Where the traveller's benefit from other tourist services depends on effective oral communication, the language in which those services are to be carried out.

10.  Whether the trip or holiday is generally suitable for persons with reduced mobility and, upon the traveller's request, the precise information on the suitability of the trip or holiday taking into account the traveller's needs.

If any change in accommodation was inherently deemed to be significant then this is where it would be stated, but paragraph 5 clearly envisages changes being accepted as insignificant if the replacement is similar enough to the original.

While obviously unable to override statutory rights, the booking terms for package providers will typically clarify that a change of accommodation to the same rating in the same resort is regarded as an insignificant change, and Travel Republic are no exception:

Examples of “insignificant changes” made before departure include the following:

- A change of outward departure time or overall length of your arrangements of twelve hours or less.

- A change of accommodation to another of the same standard or classification.

Occasionally we may have to make a significant change to your confirmed arrangements and we reserve the right to do so. A significant change is one where we significantly alter any essential element of your arrangements (other than the price) owing to circumstances beyond our control. Examples of “significant changes” made before departure include, but are not limited to, the following:

- A change of accommodation resort for the whole or a significant part of your time away.

- A change of accommodation to that of a lower standard or classification for the whole or a significant part of your time away.

[...]

OP could maybe claim that the new hotel is a lower standard than the old one, even if it's the same star rating, if there's something reasonably tangible and objective to support that, a lower price perhaps contributing to that, but personally I wouldn't see some negative reviews as being particularly relevant.

For what it's worth, ABTA aligns with (or perhaps dictates to) its members:

ABTA's advice
If the change is to accommodation within the same resort and of a similar standard as the accommodation originally booked, it won’t normally be regarded as a significant alteration.

https://www.abta.com/help-and-complaints/frequently-asked-questions/my-holiday-company-has-changed-my-accommodation-can