Migration of Tax Credits to UC says I need to look for work but currently in CB ESA Support Group!

BISH78

Hi all, hoping for some input as I am so confused and panicked.

Husband has been doing our UC application after a migration notice from Tax Credits. We currently get Child Tax credit and a tiny amount of WTC (£4 month), but I am also in receipt of CB ESA and am in the Support Group.

I was therefore shocked and quite distressed when going to complete the application and after putting in about all of my various health conditions/disabilities, that I was then asked to tick a box saying I would commit to looking for work 😳 Unfortunately I am unable to do so and this has been the case for a long time so it is not going to change just because of a migration notice 😞 

I refuse to click this box in order to complete the application as I don't understand why I need to - I'm not sure if it's as simple as because I have filled something in wrong for example? But also because I am literally terrified that I'm going to start getting calls and all sorts, which is something I cannot deal with due to various mental health difficulties, and genuinely think it would push me over the edge if this suddenly happened and I end up having to fight to prove my inability to work, which is hard enough to accept and deal with as it is. 

So this leaves me with a decision to make about whether it is actually worth pursuing the claim at all. For context, our child will be leaving education and turning 18 in a couple of months, so the Child Tax Credits would stop then anyway. The £4 a month WTC is pointless really and, if it is an equivalently small amount awarded via UC, it is definitely not worth it just for that. Also, am I correct in thinking that whatever CB ESA I receive will be deducted from any UC award, as well as my Income Protection policy payments, plus any savings over £6000 would be partially counted as well? 

This all leads me to think that we may not be eligible for much once these are taken into account anyway and, with the CTC due to cease in the near future, it seems a lot of worry and upset for the sake of a few months payments until it finishes, even though we could of course do with this not inconsiderable amount of money.

I have looked on an online calculator to see what we would be eligible to receive in UC but it stated that if you have been asked to migrate that they could not provide reliable figures as the Transitional Protection would alter these figures in reality. So how am I supposed to know if it's worth it?

I'm also very concerned that all of this will trigger an assessment for a benefit I don't even want, ie UC in place of the IR element of ESA (as that's what it seems to be in place of) but I have never been eligible for IR ESA and don't want anything in place of it, we just wanted the CTC! I did read something that said if you are in the Support/LCWRA group of ESA (as I am, albeit CB ESA) at the time of migration, you should automatically get this status transferred across to UC. But, as above, this is not what I've been shown will be the case when trying to do the application and it tells me I will need to commit to looking for work! So how do I get that info passed across/taken into account? And do they only take this into account if you are an existing IR ESA claimant (since that seems to be what the UC is replacing) in the Support/LCWRA, or does being in the same group but only being a CB ESA claimant still count? Ie, do they take being in the Support/LCWRA group into account regardless of which part of ESA you are currently eligible for? 

Also, if I decide not to claim, am I right in thinking that there should not be any effect on my CB ESA? I have been lead to believe that as this is not being migrated that it should not be affected either way?

As I said, I'm not currently entitled to IR ESA and never wanted to claim anything for that, we just wanted to claim the same entitlement to the CTC until it naturally runs out due to our child's age etc! But it seems to be opening such a can of worms for what might be very little once this is no longer being paid and as my mental health is already suffering with the worry and stress, I just need some guidance from those who know what they're talking about as my brain is all over the place so my own research is just a jumble at present and I can't make head nor tail of it all.

Very grateful in advance for any help and thank you for reading my incredibly long, rambling post if you got this far lol 😬

Thanks x

tomtom256

If you are already deemed to be LCW or LCWRA this will pull over but can take a few weeks to be ironed out. Everybody has to make the same declaration when making a claim, as they treat everybody as somebody look for work in the first instance.
It's the normal stupid everybody fits one box application process.

Newcad

DONT PANIC!

(As the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy says if you are old enough to remember it).

You get various strange and seemingly incorrect messages in the first month when transferring/migrating to UC.

They are spat out automatically by the computer reacting only to what information it knows on that day.

Tomorrow it may know differently so would not have sent it.

This is one of the well known ones, I had it myself when I moved from IR ESA to UC a year ago.

Don't be too surprised if you are also asked to provide doctors Fit Notes, ignore that as well because they are not needed in your situation but the computer doesn't know that - yet.

Your Suport Group from ESA wiil mean that you have LCWRA in UC - but it takes time for UC to ask ESA and ESA to confirm you are in SG - that just hasn't happened yet and so the UC computer has spat out that message, it will/should be corrected before the first month is over and the first UC payment due.

PS. The box you are asked to tick says something like: "I will do all that I can to look for and find work". The exact wording has changed a few times but "all that I can" means just that, some people can't and those with LCWRA are not expected to look or even 'prepare' for work.

So tick the box, "all I can do" with  LCWRA/Support Group is 'nothing'.

I won't  go into the rest of your concerns  here, we can look at those details later, I just wanted to say DON'T PANIC because even though it seems wrong  it's just the flawed UC computer system and it is what happens in the first month of many/most migrations to UC.

BISH78

Newcad said:

DONT PANIC!

(As the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy says if you are old enough to remember it).

You get various strange and seemingly incorrect messages in the first month when transferring/migrating to UC.

They are spat out automatically by the computer reacting only to what information it knows on that day.

Tomorrow it may know differently so would not have sent it.

This is one of the well known ones, I had it myself when I moved from IR ESA to UC a year ago.

Don't be too surprised if you are also asked to provide doctors Fit Notes, ignore that as well because they are not needed in your situation but the computer doesn't know that - yet.

Your Suport Group from ESA wiil mean that you have LCWRA in UC - but it takes time for UC to ask ESA and ESA to confirm you are in SG - that just hasn't happened yet and so the UC computer has spat out that message, it will/should be corrected before the first month is over and the first UC payment due.

PS. The box you are asked to tick says something like: "I will do all that I can to look for and find work". The exact wording has changed a few times but "all that I can" means just that, some people can't and those with LCWRA are not expected to look or even 'prepare' for work.

So tick the box, "all I can do" with  LCWRA/Support Group is 'nothing'.

I won't  go into the rest of your concerns  here, we can look at those details later, I just wanted to say DON'T PANIC because even though it seems wrong  it's just the flawed UC computer system and it is what happens in the first month of many/most migrations to UC.

Thanks for trying to reassure me, it is much appreciated. 

So, do I need to make them aware somehow of my Support Group status? And do I just ignore any messages etc or requests from them for Sick Notes or am I going to be back and forth having to ring people to check if something is correct as that's a real issue for me. 

I'm still not sure if it's worth bothering to apply to be honest. I'm not sure we'll be entitled to enough to make me having a breakdown worthwhile! My Husband has proposed that we call the number on the letter tomorrow during his lunch hour to see what they say, but is that likely to be useful since I know often the staff don't understand it themselves and can end up giving misinformation and causing more issues? Any experience of speaking to them?

Any other recommendations of advice organisations that may be able to help with this? I think we'll ask for an extension tomorrow when we speak to them as we've left it to the last minute and weren't expecting all of this to come up so at least that'll give us some breathing space to make a decision (if they allow it).

Thanks again.

poppy12345

Once you've submitted the claim you will have access to a journal. Put a message on there to tell them you're in the Support Group. Yes, ignore the "provide a fit note prompt' 

I wouldn't ring the helpline because I don't think what they could advise would be helpful at all. 

BISH78 said:

I think we'll ask for an extension tomorrow when we speak to them as we've left it to the last minute and weren't expecting all of this to come up so at least that'll give us some breathing space to make a decision (if they allow it).

Thanks again.

If you mean an extension to claim UC then for managed migration you must submit your claim by the date in the letter, if you don't then you'll lose any entitlement you may have to Transitional Protection. Your Tax credits will end, whether you claim by that date or not. 

It's not difficult to claim UC. I claimed for my daughter a couple of years ago and had never done that before but found the process quite easy. 

BISH78

poppy12345 said:

Once you've submitted the claim you will have access to a journal. Put a message on there to tell them you're in the Support Group. Yes, ignore the "provide a fit note prompt' 

I wouldn't ring the helpline because I don't think what they could advise would be helpful at all. 

BISH78 said:

I think we'll ask for an extension tomorrow when we speak to them as we've left it to the last minute and weren't expecting all of this to come up so at least that'll give us some breathing space to make a decision (if they allow it).

Thanks again.

If you mean an extension to claim UC then for managed migration you must submit your claim by the date in the letter, if you don't then you'll lose any entitlement you may have to Transitional Protection. Your Tax credits will end, whether you claim by that date or not. 

It's not difficult to claim UC. I claimed for my daughter a couple of years ago and had never done that before but found the process quite easy. 

Ah, OK, I read on the letter that you can ask for more time if you need it, and it also says on the Citizens Advice website you can ask for an extension as long as you ask before the original deadline. It also says that the Transitional Protection is still in place of you claim up to a month after the original deadline.

Think I'll give the UC "helpline" a swerve then by the sounds of it. Going to check with a local benefits team via my local council that I'm providing all the right info etc and that my understanding is correct just to dot the I's and cross the T's as my anxiety is so bad. The application is all but done bar ticking the box and pressing the button. It's just reassurance I need I guess, and some back up if I begin to get any issues as my MH is badly affected by this kind of thing so it's good for me to have a few things up my sleeve. This forum being one of them and I really appreciate everyone's input which has definitely helped calm my brain a little and helped me think a bit more straight! Thanks again 😊 

tomtom256

UC shuold pick it up automatically when it picks up the ESA interest showing in CIS. Although sometimes there are errors which then affects timescale, but yes drop a message or let them know if you go in for a face to face ID appointment.

Newcad

The UC telephone helplines are contracted out to G4S or Serco (can't rember which, it may be both).

So if/when you ring them you are not talking to UC staff, just a call handler who tells you what it says on their computer screen.
If that screen doesn't quite cover what you are asking about they will click on what they think is the nearest option and so by the time they have clicked through guesses on 2 or 3 screens you can end up with the wrong answer.
Plus of course those 'stock' answers are limited to simple situations anyway.

The benefits team at the council is a much better option for advice, or you can put your postcode in here to find other advisors near you: https://advicelocal.uk/find-an-adviser.

Making the UC claim itself is pretty simple, just answer the question it asks and it will ask if it needs to know more about a particular answer.
If you want to change/add anything later, or if they need more information than the claim has collected, there's a month to ask you for more and sort it out before any payment is due.

I just wish that they would give a warning that during the first month of a migration things can be a bit fluid, and you may be asked to do or supply things that you don't really need to.
A better computer programme would help, but as it's designed for new claims and not for migrations don't expect that to anytime soon. (Hopefully they will have made some changes by the time they start to manage migrate ESA in 2028).

BISH78

Thank you all again for your help and advice. 

One other question, if I don't apply, nothing will happen, will it? I mean, we aren't entitled to anything else apart from the child tax element, and the tiny bit of WTC, no free prescriptions etc and not on IR ESA or any other benefits covered by UC. So, in theory, if we just don't apply, the CTC and WTC payments will just stop and that'll be that? And we wouldn't need to let them know, just not apply at all? 

I've looked on the benefits calculator on the MSE website and we definitely aren't going to be entitled to any UC at all once our child has left education due to the offset for other income etc. So just weighing up options and whether it's actually worth all the hassle of getting the claim sorted and going through any of the potential ups and downs whilst the claim levels out for the sake of a couple of months payments which will then be cancelled and after which the claim will be a £0 award.

huckster

Yes you could just not apply and tax credit claims will end.

Appears no point in making UC claim, if you were only getting a very small amount from tax credits.  However  if Government does announce further cost of living support based on receiving UC payment during a relevant qualifying period, you would miss out on it. But don't think there has been any indication by Government that there may be further help coming.