Amex dispute claim frustration

FataVerde

I bought an iphone on Ebay with my Amex card. The iphone was not as described so I wanted to send it back but seller refused to accept return. I should have waited for Ebay to resolve the case, but because I am new to this, I also opened a dispute claim with Amex (same reason, not as described) and provided them with documentation (pictures of iphone box and ebay description to show discrepancy). Opening a dispute claim with Amex closed my Ebay return case (I was not aware). Amex contacted Ebay, which submitted some records and claimed I still have the product, which was not returned to the seller. Obviously, because I did not have the seller's name + shipping address.

The records include the seller's shipping address but no name. I want to send the product back via a tracked option with signature on delivery so I need a name. Amex closed the case and charged me back, sent a letter saying I need to provide tracking number and date for my return. They say this will allow them to reopen the dispute but they cannot confirm if I will get refunded. They also refuse to give me the seller's name. They say to contact Ebay. When I contact Ebay, they say they cannot release the seller's name due to GDPR rules.

I believe Amex should get back to Ebay and get confirmation on the seller's name + what form of shipping they deem apropriate for a refund. I don't want the seller to say he did not receive it, etc. They've been lying so far so I need a back up.

Amex agents are clueless, the dispute team does not take phone calls. I insisted they escalate my case and I speak to a manager. They refused, then told me I'll be called in 3-5 business days. I wasn't so I called to file a complaint with them. I was told I will be contacted in 3-5 business days.

Any suggestions on what to do next other than dumping Amex for good once this saga is over? Does anyone know if I can write to them? I want this documented that I contacted them and asked for the seller's details, but can't find an email address anywhere. I tried to reopen the claim and upload documents explaining the problem but they only allow four reasons for reopening and none fits my situation. I'm at my wits' end.

BoGoF

So you admit you made a bit of a mess of it and are blaming Amex. Amex cannot and should not give you the sellers personal details.

Did you request a chargeback or a claim under S75?

FataVerde

BoGoF said:

So you admit you made a bit of a mess of it and are blaming Amex. Amex cannot and should not give you the sellers personal details.

Did you request a chargeback or a claim under S75?

How exactly did I make a mess of it? I informed my bank I request money back because the product was not as described. I opened a dispute claim so I imagine it's a chargeback. If the bank required me to show proof of sending the product back how exactly am I supposed to guess the seller's details?

WillPS

FataVerde said:

BoGoF said:

So you admit you made a bit of a mess of it and are blaming Amex. Amex cannot and should not give you the sellers personal details.

Did you request a chargeback or a claim under S75?

How exactly did I make a mess of it? 

By jumping the gun on an Amex dispute. You should only raise an issue with your card issuer as a last resort.

Had you not done that, Ebay would have done their usual thing of encouraging the seller to engage, then eventually step in and provide a returns label if they don't etc. There wouldn't have been a need to engage Amex at all.

Because you did, Amex will have recalled the money from them, which had the effect of closing your case (what can ebay do if they don't have a transaction to refund any longer). Now Amex look in to the details and find that you hadn't given them a chance to solve things, so effectively they're passing you back to Ebay. You're now reliant on Ebay to allow you to open a case again, which they will be unwilling to do until they have your transaction back... I fear it might be catch 22.

eskbanker

FataVerde said:

BoGoF said:

So you admit you made a bit of a mess of it and are blaming Amex. Amex cannot and should not give you the sellers personal details.

Did you request a chargeback or a claim under S75?

How exactly did I make a mess of it? I informed my bank I request money back because the product was not as described. I opened a dispute claim so I imagine it's a chargeback. If the bank required me to show proof of sending the product back how exactly am I supposed to guess the seller's details?

The point is that you're supposed to have engaged with the seller before initiating a chargeback.

prettyandfluffy

You had the seller's name all the time, you could have addressed the parcel to "EBay seller qwerty" or whatever name they trade under.  I've done this before and the parcel has been delivered to them.

FataVerde

eskbanker said:

FataVerde said:

BoGoF said:

So you admit you made a bit of a mess of it and are blaming Amex. Amex cannot and should not give you the sellers personal details.

Did you request a chargeback or a claim under S75?

How exactly did I make a mess of it? I informed my bank I request money back because the product was not as described. I opened a dispute claim so I imagine it's a chargeback. If the bank required me to show proof of sending the product back how exactly am I supposed to guess the seller's details?

The point is that you're supposed to have engaged with the seller before initiating a chargeback.

I did. The seller offered a 50£ discount but the problem was that the Iphone was not a UK product as described by the seller so it would not qualify for warranty in the UK. They refused to accept a return. It's clear they knew it wouldn't resell for that value as an Indian product.

FataVerde

WillPS said:
By jumping the gun on an Amex dispute. You should only raise an issue with your card issuer as a last resort.

Had you not done that, Ebay would have done their usual thing of encouraging the seller to engage, then eventually step in and provide a returns label if they don't etc. There wouldn't have been a need to engage Amex at all.

Because you did, Amex will have recalled the money from them, which had the effect of closing your case (what can ebay do if they don't have a transaction to refund any longer). Now Amex look in to the details and find that you hadn't given them a chance to solve things, so effectively they're passing you back to Ebay. You're now reliant on Ebay to allow you to open a case again, which they will be unwilling to do until they have your transaction back... I fear it might be catch 22.

Yes, but how would I have known this? I never had to dispute a transaction before. It's just that I was not aware of the regulations around this. My question was what I can do now not what I could have done if I had known the rules. This also does not mean that Amex should not do their job properly.

FataVerde

prettyandfluffy said:

You had the seller's name all the time, you could have addressed the parcel to "EBay seller qwerty" or whatever name they trade under.  I've done this before and the parcel has been delivered to them.

Ebay requires shipping with signature on delivery for item over £500, which is the case. The Ebay forum and the post office confirmed I'd need the name for signature on delivery.

WillPS

FataVerde said:

WillPS said:
By jumping the gun on an Amex dispute. You should only raise an issue with your card issuer as a last resort.

Had you not done that, Ebay would have done their usual thing of encouraging the seller to engage, then eventually step in and provide a returns label if they don't etc. There wouldn't have been a need to engage Amex at all.

Because you did, Amex will have recalled the money from them, which had the effect of closing your case (what can ebay do if they don't have a transaction to refund any longer). Now Amex look in to the details and find that you hadn't given them a chance to solve things, so effectively they're passing you back to Ebay. You're now reliant on Ebay to allow you to open a case again, which they will be unwilling to do until they have your transaction back... I fear it might be catch 22.

Yes, but how would I have known this? I never had to dispute a transaction before. It's just that I was not aware of the regulations around this. My question was what I can do now not what I could have done if I had known the rules. This also does not mean that Amex should not do their job properly.

Amex have done their job properly. You've (inadvertedly, I'm quite sure) not done your job properly.

You need to try explaining to Amex that you've screwed up and need their help trying to sort this. Acknowledge that it's a catch 22 situation without they help, as you can't send the item anywhere, and ebay are no longer willing to help. Hopefully an address will eventually be rendered for you.

born_again

Amex have done what they should.

Had this of been Visa/Mastercard that would be the end of the matter, as you only get one chance at a chargeback.

Which couriers will get a signature? Royal mail don't... Will get a photo of a foot or door step & delivered package at best.