Where can I find my COPE if I am already claiming my state pension?

pinnks

Does anyone know how to find their COPE figure once they have claimed the state pension?

molerat

The only way would be to contact the Pension Service.

Ant555

just out of interest, what are you looking to find out - do you suspect you are not receiving the correct amount of state pension?

pinnks

molerat said:

The only way would be to contact the Pension Service.

Thanks, I had sort of come to that conclusion but wanted to check.  

pinnks

Ant555 said:

just out of interest, what are you looking to find out - do you suspect you are not receiving the correct amount of state pension?

It is in relation to a person who started claiming their pension a couple of years ago but who is now considering paying voluntary (hopefully) Class 2 as a no resident and needs to work out where they stand in terms of pre-2016/17 years.  They have all 10 available and 24 years already in the bag from before 2015/16.  So, whether they can pay only 6 or all 10 "old" years depends on what their COPE is.  They know their starting amount as no NI has been paid since the late 1990s but without their COPE is it, let's say, challenging to reach a definitive conclusion - well it is for my brain and calculator, lol.

molerat

What is their current pension amount ?  I can plug it into my spreadsheet and see if anything jumps out.  Some assumptions can be made, if they are currently receiving £X then they must have had a COPE of at least £Y which could give a good indication without having to contact DWP, knowing the actual amount may not be necessary to prove more than 30 pre 2016 years unviable.  Why are they concentrating on pre 2016 years when post 2016 are guaranteed to add value and will likely be worth more ?

Marcon

pinnks said:

molerat said:

The only way would be to contact the Pension Service.

Thanks, I had sort of come to that conclusion but wanted to check.  

Why the reluctance? For people under transitional arrangements, that's going to be the only way to get an accurate answer (and possibly save wasting some money). 

pinnks

Reluctance?  Not sure where you got that from.  The backstop would always to ask DWP but if it was available online still for such people, it would save a phone call.  

pinnks

molerat said:

What is their current pension amount ?  I can plug it into my spreadsheet and see if anything jumps out.  Some assumptions can be made, if they are currently receiving £X then they must have had a COPE of at least £Y which could give a good indication without having to contact DWP, knowing the actual amount may not be necessary to prove more than 30 pre 2016 years unviable.  Why are they concentrating on pre 2016 years when post 2016 are guaranteed to add value and will likely be worth more ?

OK, so they are working from a letter from DWP dated in 2019/20.  They reached pension age 2020/21.  Latest NI year in forecast 2017/18.  All 24 NI years are pre-2006/07, so all 14 years 2006/07 to 2019/20 are up for grabs.

Forecast to 5 April 2018 = £104.05.
Contribute 2 years to 5 April 2020  = £113.68
Forecast if fill gaps = £161.85

DWP then says if they fill 2006/07 to 2015/16 the pension would increase to £143.59.  If the old rules apply then I would expect the £104.05 to increase to £147.15.  However, DWP's yearly increase numbers fluctuate for the first 6 years between £4.30 and £4.32, whereas I would expect £4.31 for each year. Year 7 show it adds £0, year 8 £3.06, year 9 £4.81 and year 10 £4.82 - remember, nothing has been paid for any of those years.  That makes no sense to me.  It sort of suggests that something changes once 6 pre 2016/17 years are added but then suggests weird amounts of increase for years 7 to 10.  One would expect either 6 years at £4.31 and 4 years at £0, or all 10 at £4.82, if the new rules give the better answer at 2016.  It then suggests that if 2016/17 and 2017/18 are also purchased that £143.59 would increase to £155.22 but that makes no sense either.  £143.59 plus 2 x £4.82 is £153.23

Next it looks at buying only post 2015/16 years and says that if the person buys only to two remaining years the pension would be £113.68, which is 1p adrift from £104.05 plus + 2 x £4.82.

Finally it says that if all 14 years are purchased then they would get £161.85 but using their numbers, £155.22, plus 2 x £4.82 = £164.86.

None of the above makes much sense to me...

There is a COPE as the person was in a public sector scheme that I know was contracted out.  I stuck the above into my spreadsheet and cannot get a sensible answer, absent COPE.  Not sure if that is my spreadsheet or a case of garbage in = garbage out.

If I use COPE of £10.66 or less I get garbage.  £10.67 would seem to give a result that the new rules apply for transition and they person could achieve the max, contrary to DWP's numbers.  If I use a higher COPE the achievable maximum pension reduces below what DWP suggest.  To get £161.85 one needs COPE of about £19.70 but then, £161.85 makes no sense to me anyway.

So, am I going crazy, or is the DWP letter just rubbish?

 

xylophone

The backstop would always to ask DWP but if it was available online still for such people, it would save a phone call.  

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-to-pay-voluntary-national-insurance-contributions-when-abroad-cf83

You can get advice on whether you’ll benefit from paying voluntary National Insurance contributions. If you are:

• below State Pension age, contact the Future Pension Centre

• over, or within 6 months of reaching State Pension age, contact the International Pension Centre

pinnks

Thanks - am aware of that and the person has already paid NI from abroad and the details I have provided are from the letter from DWP.  True, they have not acted on it and now claimed their pension but are now thinking they can afford to top up after all.  It is just that what DWP say makes no sense, so before going back to them it would be helpful to have an idea of why that might be and what the answer should be.  The only missing number is COPE.