Costs of moving home to settle Estate, can this be claimed from the Estate?

Marcon

BYF said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Looking at it from the other side it would be unfair on the other beneficiaries not to receive their inheritance while your mother benefits from it. Did your mother’s sibling have any other assets that could reduce the amount your mother needs to raise to pay the other siblings? If your mother cannot raise the funds to pay off her siblings then one other option would be to obtain equity release on the existing property. 

Oh I agree it needs sorting and I understand the other side. We're all just annoyed including the beneficiaries that the deceased sibling didn't make a will and take care of my mum as he should. The thing is when money is on the table things aren't so clear.

They could always renounce their inheritance or make deeds of variation (you can do these even in cases of intestacy) if they feel strongly that your mum should (and would) have been left the bit of the property she doesn't own had the deceased made a will. Any chance of doing some sort of deal on that score?

BYF

Marcon said:

BYF said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Looking at it from the other side it would be unfair on the other beneficiaries not to receive their inheritance while your mother benefits from it. Did your mother’s sibling have any other assets that could reduce the amount your mother needs to raise to pay the other siblings? If your mother cannot raise the funds to pay off her siblings then one other option would be to obtain equity release on the existing property. 

Oh I agree it needs sorting and I understand the other side. We're all just annoyed including the beneficiaries that the deceased sibling didn't make a will and take care of my mum as he should. The thing is when money is on the table things aren't so clear.

They could always renounce their inheritance or make deeds of variation (you can do these even in cases of intestacy) if they feel strongly that your mum should (and would) have been left the bit of the property she doesn't own had the deceased made a will. Any chance of doing some sort of deal on that score?

It's a possibility, however I should mention it's over 2 years so Deed of Variation is no longer an option, I'm not sure if renouncing inheritance has a time limit. I did mention the possibility of a Deed of Variation to one of the beneficiaries who was open to making things right for my mum, but after they had a discussion with the other beneficiary (who had no contact with the deceased for 30 years after a falling out and didn't even attend the funeral) the tone changed to following what the law says, and them receiving what they are entitled too. Unbelievable really but also predictable.

RAS

Did no-one explain that even if "disgruntled" didn't agree to a variation, that option was still open to "amenable". It only requires the agreement of those actually relinquishing their share.

And it's also possible that "disgruntled" had no option. If they claim mean-tested benefits, failing to accept an inheritance is deprivation of assets.

BooJewels

Could your Mum not rent the 35% share from her siblings?  I know it was mentioned that she's in receipt of pension credit and it would make the siblings landlords when they perhaps wouldn't want to be - but it's another option that I don't think has been mentioned and might be easier to fund than the lump sum costs of moving

BYF

RAS said:

Did no-one explain that even if "disgruntled" didn't agree to a variation, that option was still open to "amenable". It only requires the agreement of those actually relinquishing their share.

And it's also possible that "disgruntled" had no option. If they claim mean-tested benefits, failing to accept an inheritance is deprivation of assets.

It was explained to "amenable" but then aligned with "disgruntled" so they both are singing from the same hymn sheet. The thing is "amenable " wouldn't want us to move as they needs us close by to look out for them and to run errands as they are very elderly and live alone with no children. "Amenable" has repeatedly said that no one will be kicked out of their house but I don't think fully grasps how that can happen.
 
Thanks for making this point, it's possible "disgruntled" may have to accept but I'd think unlikely. They have many children and grandchildren though I fully understand them accepting it. "Amenable definitely has no benefits, she is financially very comfortable, but obviously things can change fast if you need full time care.

BYF

BooJewels said:

Could your Mum not rent the 35% share from her siblings?  I know it was mentioned that she's in receipt of pension credit and it would make the siblings landlords when they perhaps wouldn't want to be - but it's another option that I don't think has been mentioned and might be easier to fund than the lump sum costs of moving

Just to be clear the 35% is to be split between mum and two siblings, so the siblings combined share is approx 24%. If the siblings became landlords and had rent paid to them, would they not be liable for % of maintenance costs/repairs, I don't think they would go for that option.

Initially the solicitor suggested to just put the house into everyone's name indicating the share owned and a clause (with agreement) that my mum can stay there until she passes on or decides to move and then there will be a payout. But I have heard that "disgruntled" wants the money.  I'm thinking of buying out "disgruntled" and perhaps asking "amenable" if they would be happy to be added as a part owner as per clause above.

Lots of discussions to be had for sure.

BooJewels

@BYF - that was why I said about the two siblings becoming landlords and perhaps not wanting to be - it has its own potential perils, but beyond my personal sphere of knowledge. 

I understand the figures now - I wondered where 35% suddenly appeared from - I had less than 25% in mind until recent posts - I see that a third of the 35% is already your Mum's.   A life interest in the property by a deed of variation sounds the most practical solution - but when one party has other ideas, you just end up in an impasse.  Funny how it's always the relatives with what seems to be the least right, ends up making the most demands.

Perhaps a discussion with some sort of mediation might help - someone informed like a solicitor, who could make potential suggestions.  A quick look shows that there are mediation services for inheritance and property issues.

BYF

BooJewels said:

@BYF - that was why I said about the two siblings becoming landlords and perhaps not wanting to be - it has its own potential perils, but beyond my personal sphere of knowledge. 

I understand the figures now - I wondered where 35% suddenly appeared from - I had less than 25% in mind until recent posts - I see that a third of the 35% is already your Mum's.   A life interest in the property by a deed of variation sounds the most practical solution - but when one party has other ideas, you just end up in an impasse.  Funny how it's always the relatives with what seems to be the least right, ends up making the most demands.

Perhaps a discussion with some sort of mediation might help - someone informed like a solicitor, who could make potential suggestions.  A quick look shows that there are mediation services for inheritance and property issues.

Thanks for the reply, yes good points regarding  becoming landlords and what that could entail.

Apologies about the figures. Deceased overall share of property is 35% to be split three ways 11.7ish% each. Mum's ownership percentage increases from 65% to 76.7%. So mum owns just over three quarters of the property, legally can she really be forced to sell up with all the upheaval and costs involved? Surely she would have the overall say of what happens to the property being the majority owner.

Mediation is something I'll bear in mind, we need to have some more conversations before that point, hopefully we can come to some arrangement. 

I have chased the solicitor again today regarding organising a final valuation, hopefully it won't be too long now and discussions can commence when we have the numbers in.

Keep_pedalling

BYF said:

Keep_pedalling said:

BYF said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Looking at it from the other side it would be unfair on the other beneficiaries not to receive their inheritance while your mother benefits from it. Did your mother’s sibling have any other assets that could reduce the amount your mother needs to raise to pay the other siblings? If your mother cannot raise the funds to pay off her siblings then one other option would be to obtain equity release on the existing property. 

Oh I agree it needs sorting and I understand the other side. We're all just annoyed including the beneficiaries that the deceased sibling didn't make a will and take care of my mum as he should. The thing is when money is on the table things aren't so clear.

Equity release is an option, but hear and read so many horror stories, think my mum would rather sell up. I know there's different ways of doing it now with the ability to pay the interest to prevent it from compounding.

The only people who really get upset at ER, are people who find they are not going to inherit as much as they thought they would, there is no down side to the person taking out the loan. 

Very true, I discussed again with my mum last night but she is still firmly against equity release and says she would rather move.

Our next step is to get another final valuation for the the property to get an idea of current market value and more accurate idea of numbers, this is what the solicitor has advised. We are not sure how the value of the deceased share (35%ish) will be calculated though, I wouldn't have thought that a minority share would sell for as much as an entire property. The declaration of trust just says a 65/35 split, so it maybe just the case of getting a valuation for the property as a whole and and working out the percentages.

I'll update again once we have a valuation and had some family discussions.

In the long run that may be the best option, especially if it means moving from a large expensive to run older home to a smaller, more modern and more energy efficient home.  

elsien

I really don’t think it works that she gets the bigger say because she owns a larger percentage. 

Eventually the only way to force it would be to go to court but that would be expensive all round and best avoided. 

However, people are entitled with their inheritance and it’s not unreasonable of of them to want to know/when that will happen. They could have their own plans that this will help them towards.