Failed deposit protection

Almostinnocent

Hello everyone, I'm seeking advice and clarification regarding a situation with the property we've been renting. We rented the property through an agency and paid our deposit (slightly under 2K) and the first month's rent directly to the agency. Subsequently, we received the landlord's bank details to set up a standing order for future monthly rental payments. At the beginning, the agency provided us with a bunch of paperwork, including a deposit protection form, which we filled and emailed back. However, we never received the deposit protection certificate, which went unnoticed as we had our first baby shortly after moving in. 

After a year, we signed another tenancy agreement and continued to stay at the property on a rolling basis. We had a positive relationship with the landlord, who did not increase the rent. We on another side were a good tenants, never caused issues or complainted. As we were saving up to get our own house, once the landlord has informed us that the property was being put up for sale, we decided to buy it. And despite the property being on the market and viewings taking place, our offer was accepted (it was higher than the asking price). It took half a year to settle the sale during which we were left in some sort of limbo, but that is not relevant to deposit issue.

Just before signing the final papers, I emailed the landlord to inquire about the deposit's return, as there wouldn't be any inventory done. The landlord stated that there shouldn't be any issues, but surprisingly, he mentioned that the deposit was kept by the agency. After the sale went through, 10 days passed without any news about the deposit, causing concern.

Upon contacting the landlord, he pointed to the agency, which led to a back-and-forth. The agency claimed their systems changed, and we were not on the registry. I forwarded all correspondence and evidence, and they then said the deposit was with the landlord. This ping pong game continued, causing stress. I explored a no-win, no-fee option, discussing it with my husband. Suddenly, the landlord, whom I had only communicated with through emails, turned up at our doorstep.

During our conversation, he expressed frustration with the deposit situation, stating that the agency was holding it, and he was trying to resolve the matter. He even mentioned considering paying us from his own pocket, but apparently his wife insisted it was not his mistake, and we should contact the agency. We discussed the option of involving solicitors, and he encouraged me to pursue that route. On the same day, I contacted solicitors.

Once the solicitors sent out letters, the agency promptly contacted us, requesting our bank details for the deposit transfer. I referred them back to our solicitors, and eventually, the deposit was transferred, with the solicitors deducting their fees. However, the agency failed to respond to other claims included in the solicitors' letter. Despite several reminder letters, there was no response. The same letters were sent to the landlord, solicitors insisted that this is the right way. He didn't respond either.

Feeling stressed by the deposit situation, I believed we deserved compensation to cover solicitors' fees and my time, so we submitted a case. Shortly after, I received a confusing email from the landlord, stating that he transferred the agency our deposit until the actual deposit would be paid back to him. The email seemed rushed and unclear, leaving me unsure if he was truthful or if he had a role in protecting the deposit. The agency and landlord still have a couple of weeks to respond to the claim, but my husband and I remain uncertain about the actual responsibilities concerning our deposit. Was the agency responsible at any point, or was it solely the landlord's responsibility throughout? Agency and the landlord are both on the claim, but before today I was certain we are going against the agency. 

_Penny_Dreadful

Almostinnocent said:

Hello everyone, I'm seeking advice and clarification regarding a situation with the property we've been renting. We rented the property through an agency and paid our deposit (slightly under 2K) and the first month's rent directly to the agency. Subsequently, we received the landlord's bank details to set up a standing order for future monthly rental payments. At the beginning, the agency provided us with a bunch of paperwork, including a deposit protection form, which we filled and emailed back. However, we never received the deposit protection certificate, which went unnoticed as we had our first baby shortly after moving in. 

After a year, we signed another tenancy agreement and continued to stay at the property on a rolling basis. We had a positive relationship with the landlord, who did not increase the rent. We on another side were a good tenants, never caused issues or complainted. As we were saving up to get our own house, once the landlord has informed us that the property was being put up for sale, we decided to buy it. And despite the property being on the market and viewings taking place, our offer was accepted (it was higher than the asking price). It took half a year to settle the sale during which we were left in some sort of limbo, but that is not relevant to deposit issue.

Just before signing the final papers, I emailed the landlord to inquire about the deposit's return, as there wouldn't be any inventory done. The landlord stated that there shouldn't be any issues, but surprisingly, he mentioned that the deposit was kept by the agency. After the sale went through, 10 days passed without any news about the deposit, causing concern.

Upon contacting the landlord, he pointed to the agency, which led to a back-and-forth. The agency claimed their systems changed, and we were not on the registry. I forwarded all correspondence and evidence, and they then said the deposit was with the landlord. This ping pong game continued, causing stress. I explored a no-win, no-fee option, discussing it with my husband. Suddenly, the landlord, whom I had only communicated with through emails, turned up at our doorstep.

During our conversation, he expressed frustration with the deposit situation, stating that the agency was holding it, and he was trying to resolve the matter. He even mentioned considering paying us from his own pocket, but apparently his wife insisted it was not his mistake, and we should contact the agency. We discussed the option of involving solicitors, and he encouraged me to pursue that route. On the same day, I contacted solicitors.

Once the solicitors sent out letters, the agency promptly contacted us, requesting our bank details for the deposit transfer. I referred them back to our solicitors, and eventually, the deposit was transferred, with the solicitors deducting their fees. However, the agency failed to respond to other claims included in the solicitors' letter. Despite several reminder letters, there was no response. The same letters were sent to the landlord, solicitors insisted that this is the right way. He didn't respond either.

Feeling stressed by the deposit situation, I believed we deserved compensation to cover solicitors' fees and my time, so we submitted a case. Shortly after, I received a confusing email from the landlord, stating that he transferred the agency our deposit until the actual deposit would be paid back to him. The email seemed rushed and unclear, leaving me unsure if he was truthful or if he had a role in protecting the deposit. The agency and landlord still have a couple of weeks to respond to the claim, but my husband and I remain uncertain about the actual responsibilities concerning our deposit. Was the agency responsible at any point, or was it solely the landlord's responsibility throughout? Agency and the landlord are both on the claim, but before today I was certain we are going against the agency. 

Ultimately the responsibility to protect your deposit lies with the landlord. He’s the one you had a contract with, not the letting agent. The landlord has a contract with the letting agent so if they have failed to do something they were contractually obligated to do then he can sue them. 

There’s nothing wrong with naming both the landlord and agent on your claim. What is it you are claiming for? Solicitors fees and time or are you claiming the penalty for failure to protect your deposit i.e. 1-3 times the value of the deposit which the court must award you? 

Almostinnocent

_Penny_Dreadful said:

Almostinnocent said:

Hello everyone, I'm seeking advice and clarification regarding a situation with the property we've been renting. We rented the property through an agency and paid our deposit (slightly under 2K) and the first month's rent directly to the agency. Subsequently, we received the landlord's bank details to set up a standing order for future monthly rental payments. At the beginning, the agency provided us with a bunch of paperwork, including a deposit protection form, which we filled and emailed back. However, we never received the deposit protection certificate, which went unnoticed as we had our first baby shortly after moving in. 

After a year, we signed another tenancy agreement and continued to stay at the property on a rolling basis. We had a positive relationship with the landlord, who did not increase the rent. We on another side were a good tenants, never caused issues or complainted. As we were saving up to get our own house, once the landlord has informed us that the property was being put up for sale, we decided to buy it. And despite the property being on the market and viewings taking place, our offer was accepted (it was higher than the asking price). It took half a year to settle the sale during which we were left in some sort of limbo, but that is not relevant to deposit issue.

Just before signing the final papers, I emailed the landlord to inquire about the deposit's return, as there wouldn't be any inventory done. The landlord stated that there shouldn't be any issues, but surprisingly, he mentioned that the deposit was kept by the agency. After the sale went through, 10 days passed without any news about the deposit, causing concern.

Upon contacting the landlord, he pointed to the agency, which led to a back-and-forth. The agency claimed their systems changed, and we were not on the registry. I forwarded all correspondence and evidence, and they then said the deposit was with the landlord. This ping pong game continued, causing stress. I explored a no-win, no-fee option, discussing it with my husband. Suddenly, the landlord, whom I had only communicated with through emails, turned up at our doorstep.

During our conversation, he expressed frustration with the deposit situation, stating that the agency was holding it, and he was trying to resolve the matter. He even mentioned considering paying us from his own pocket, but apparently his wife insisted it was not his mistake, and we should contact the agency. We discussed the option of involving solicitors, and he encouraged me to pursue that route. On the same day, I contacted solicitors.

Once the solicitors sent out letters, the agency promptly contacted us, requesting our bank details for the deposit transfer. I referred them back to our solicitors, and eventually, the deposit was transferred, with the solicitors deducting their fees. However, the agency failed to respond to other claims included in the solicitors' letter. Despite several reminder letters, there was no response. The same letters were sent to the landlord, solicitors insisted that this is the right way. He didn't respond either.

Feeling stressed by the deposit situation, I believed we deserved compensation to cover solicitors' fees and my time, so we submitted a case. Shortly after, I received a confusing email from the landlord, stating that he transferred the agency our deposit until the actual deposit would be paid back to him. The email seemed rushed and unclear, leaving me unsure if he was truthful or if he had a role in protecting the deposit. The agency and landlord still have a couple of weeks to respond to the claim, but my husband and I remain uncertain about the actual responsibilities concerning our deposit. Was the agency responsible at any point, or was it solely the landlord's responsibility throughout? Agency and the landlord are both on the claim, but before today I was certain we are going against the agency. 

Ultimately the responsibility to protect your deposit lies with the landlord. He’s the one you had a contract with, not the letting agent. The landlord has a contract with the letting agent so if they have failed to do something they were contractually obligated to do then he can sue them. 

There’s nothing wrong with naming both the landlord and agent on your claim. What is it you are claiming for? Solicitors fees and time or are you claiming the penalty for failure to protect your deposit i.e. 1-3 times the value of the deposit which the court must award you? 

Claiming for the failure to protect the deposit twice, as we had two tenancy agreements. Plus the legal fees. 

housebuyer143

I don't think his can claim for failure to protect it twice as it's the same money, but you should be entitled to 1-3x the value as they failed to protect it. 

Your complaint is with the landlord as that's who the contract is with, and it's his responsibility to ensure the agent he hired has done the job correctly. If it was fully managed then he can take it up with the agent and get his money back. If it was managed by him then it's 100% his fault. If the agent is getting involved though I imagine it was a fully managed service.

Almostinnocent

housebuyer143 said:

I don't think his can claim for failure to protect it twice as it's the same money, but you should be entitled to 1-3x the value as they failed to protect it. 

Your complaint is with the landlord as that's who the contract is with, and it's his responsibility to ensure the agent he hired has done the job correctly. If it was fully managed then he can take it up with the agent and get his money back. If it was managed by him then it's 100% his fault. If the agent is getting involved though I imagine it was a fully managed service.

I thought we couldn't make a double claim, but the lawyers insist that's a misconception. If the initial deposit process was done correctly, there's no need to reprotect it. However, if there were errors, it violates the law again. They claim success in similar cases. Will see what offer we get, we are not greedy.
The landlord managed the property, and the agency handled paperwork and fees; now I realise he lied to us and he had our money all this time. Disgrace, as he made a very good profit on the house sale, so he had funds to return the deposit.  

propertyrental

Are you sure the deposit was not protected? The agency certainly sent you something (unclear what) which might have been the PI???

And if the agency held the money it could have been protected in a custodial scheme.

Have you checked?

Ss others have said, it was the LL who was responsible - the agent is acting on his behalf - so it was the LL you should have chased.

Your claim for your legal / solicitor's costs is against the LL, though you include the agent as co-defendant, but whether a court would award these costs (solicitors costs often not awarded in small claims( is uncertain.

How much was the deposit and how nmuch the costs?

Almostinnocent

propertyrental said:

Are you sure the deposit was not protected? The agency certainly sent you something (unclear what) which might have been the PI???

And if the agency held the money it could have been protected in a custodial scheme.

Have you checked?

Ss others have said, it was the LL who was responsible - the agent is acting on his behalf - so it was the LL you should have chased.

Your claim for your legal / solicitor's costs is against the LL, though you include the agent as co-defendant, but whether a court would award these costs (solicitors costs often not awarded in small claims( is uncertain.

How much was the deposit and how nmuch the costs?

It was definitely not protected, as I have checked all schemes and the landlord has verbally confirmed that there is no protection as the agency failed to protect. The form that the agency sent us was a DPS which we signed and emailed back. But it was never registered. The agency has also confirmed that they have checked all schemes and it is not there. As it comes to light following LL email, the money were transferred to him, not kept by the agency. However before submitting the claim I have asked the agency to show some sort of evidence that the money were transferred to him, but they ignored it. 
Deposit was £1800, the fees taken so far £500. But it will be more, as the claim went to court. 

RAS

Have you actually checked all three deposit scheme, you just need your address and post code?

You really didn't need lawyers to make this claim. So expecting the LL to pay your legal fees isn't right. And neither the LL or the EA are entitled to reduce the money returned, as the fees for securing are a LL cost.

However, you can bin the lawyers, and just let the LL know that you will have to use small claims court action to demand the deposit return and the 1-3 times penalty. Then send a letter before action. You won't get legal fees returned but even if you just get a 1xpenalty, it will cover the costs.

Unless you signed up a NoWinNofee outfit? 

Whoever you've got doesn't seem much more clued up than your LL or his EA. None of them seem to understand the LL's responsibilities, if his EA are failed to comply with the law, he needs to sort them out.

Almostinnocent

RAS said:

Have you actually checked all three deposit scheme, you just need your address and post code?

You really didn't need lawyers to make this claim. So expecting the LL to pay your legal fees isn't right. And neither the LL or the EA are entitled to reduce the money returned, as the fees for securing are a LL cost.

However, you can bin the lawyers, and just let the LL know that you will have to use small claims court action to demand the deposit return and the 1-3 times penalty. Then send a letter before action. You won't get legal fees returned but even if you just get a 1xpenalty, it will cover the costs.

Unless you signed up a NoWinNofee outfit? 

Whoever you've got doesn't seem much more clued up than your LL or his EA. None of them seem to understand the LL's responsibilities, if his EA are failed to comply with the law, he needs to sort them out.

Yes, I have checked and deposit was not protected.

We signed a no win no fee agreement. The mentioned letters sent to the agency and landlord were Letters before action, along with at least two reminder letters, to which they failed to respond.

I understand your point that I could have handled it myself, but I was emotionally drained after a challenging house sale experience. Our offer's acceptance was uncertain until the last moment, with the selling agent and their solicitors playing games and being dishonest. Despite our solicitors advising us to find another house due to the ridiculous situation, we have waited till the end as my son goes to a very good school and I wanted to stay in this area. Anyway it's not directly relevant to this case.

Feeling tossed between the landlord and rental agency without any sign of the deposit, getting solicitors seemed reasonable at the time.

I expect the landlord to cover legal fees because the deposit is rightfully ours, and he created unnecessary obstacles in its retrieval, intentionally subjecting us to stress in the hope we'd abandon the claim.

mexican_dave

Sorry my eyes glazed over reading this, both the landlord and the agent have failed, your contract is with the landlord, take him to the small claims court! Long shot - if you live in Wales check the property is registered with RentSmartWales and the agent is registered too. Failure on either of those counts is a massive fine - paid to the courts unfortunately, not to you.

propertyrental

Whetherv the agent or the LL has the money is irrelevant.

Your contract is with the LL. It is the LL who granted you the tenancy (though the agent may have assisted on the LL's behalf).

So the LL is responsible for your deposit.

Sue the LL for return of the deposit, and claim the penalty for non protection from the LL.