PIP - has a claim been rejected and we don't know?

Spoonie_Turtle

Muttleythefrog said:

peteuk said:

As for the address, I would say it’s Royal Mail who have most likely sent it to the wrong address, as one of the checks at the start of the assessment is address, NI and DOB.  Simple checks, unless they have moved recently. 

My concern is "She was rejected 2 weeks ago and the letter went to the wrong address" - how would PIP know (there's no tracking) unless they confirmed in the call the address on the letter was wrong. 

I'd have thought the most likely explanation is they did confirm it was sent to an address different from where she's staying.  We don't know the situation at all, it's possible the friend was at one address before, or using an address for post, and now is with the OP and didn't update the address for PIP.  We just do not have enough info yet to be able to work out what's going on or what's happened.

It is also possible - highly unlikely, but possible - that PIP truly did just send it to a different claimant's address.  We've had a post in the past, someone's paperwork was sent to someone else by DWP; I can't remember if it was a tribunal bundle or something but the person posting was absolutely horrified because it contained copies of medical evidence along with all the very personal details on the form.  (I also can't remember if the person posting was the recipient of the wayward paperwork, or the claimant and had been told it went to a different address.  It was some years ago now.)

While the claimant isn't the one posting themselves, I don't think it's kind to speculate about them*.  Once we have more info we might be able to tell the OP different possibilities, but at the moment they still need to know what questions they need to ask and what info they need to find out.  And that's what we're here for

*I'm well aware you could be going by gut feeling and your gut feeling could turn out to be right, but I mean just at this point we ought to wait for more info still.

Muttleythefrog

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Muttleythefrog said:

peteuk said:

As for the address, I would say it’s Royal Mail who have most likely sent it to the wrong address, as one of the checks at the start of the assessment is address, NI and DOB.  Simple checks, unless they have moved recently. 

My concern is "She was rejected 2 weeks ago and the letter went to the wrong address" - how would PIP know (there's no tracking) unless they confirmed in the call the address on the letter was wrong. 

While the claimant isn't the one posting themselves, I don't think it's kind to speculate about them*.  Once we have more info we might be able to tell the OP different possibilities, but at the moment they still need to know what questions they need to ask and what info they need to find out.  And that's what we're here for

The problem for me is the Op seems to be being kept in dark... and their money is involved ("I am affected by the lack of benefits as I cannot keep this up") and they cannot sustain the support... if it wasn't involved then it wouldn't much matter except in personal relationship terms as things come out in the wash. There was even some possible attempt to deter a call to PIP on grounds PIP wouldn't give information which we all know to be nonsense and now proven so. So I really do think unless they start getting answers (or have previously been provided such) on their other income or resources (which then explains why they can't support themselves or repay the money) then it's only a matter of time before they will have to take a decision in their own interests... and even if everything of the claimant is authentic (my suspicions entirely unwarranted) and there's just miscommunications between lines we know overturning a PIP decision is not likely to be fast unless done in coming weeks of a MR. So if PIP is the determinant of whether financial resolution can be made we know this could be many months away or never... where would that leave the Op.

Spoonie_Turtle

^ Agreed, and looking into the friend claiming income-related benefits should bear fruit (or uncover information) much quicker.

Obviously getting a correct PIP decision is important, but as you say even if it all works out will still take a long time.

moneyunwise

Hi, here is the update.

They have applied for uc with the help of a social worker. Apparently there is no back dating with uc as far as we can tell. Very disappointed that this wasn't done months ago as it could have helped me. I cannot blame the person as they were in a mess, I accepted their opinion and they did have helpers - just not a full on social worker who knew the score.

They have appealed pip. The reason they lost it was a lack of documents and they had assumed the medical documents would be sent to the assessors. See above as to how this happened! Frankly, if I hadn't posted here (which I did because I had a nagging doubt about things that nobody else had) then they would have lost the opportunity to appeal. The medical documents have arrived and the pip appeal is in progress.

So whilst the good news is things are in control, the bad news is we cannot know what the pip result will be and so much time wasted. The number of support bodies involved who have good intentions but no real idea has been an eye opener. Plus the financial hit to me means that had I known how long this would take, I would have made cut backs much earlier.

Muttleythefrog

moneyunwise said:

Hi, here is the update.

....

Pleased the 'other benefits'/income' issue is being addressed by applying for U/C. It was a matter many were concerned about and I did fear there was miscommunication or worse. Put simply she must have had significant resource or be entitled to claim an income related benefit i.e U/C.

And in terms of the PIP.... yes sadly a slow process but hopefully appeal has merit and success. If the appeal is unsuccessful then there is a possibility of re-applying... crucial as at every stage is focussing on disablement in relation to the PIP activities and their associated disability descriptors. 

Unfortunately, as you seem to be looking in on, various agencies/support may not be entirely expert on the matters at hand.. and add in that a subject who is struggling to manage their affairs... and then communication issues to 3rd party such as you for whom the facts matter but can be obscured. 

I don't suppose the next issue is going to be Universal Credit and getting 'fit notes' from her GP along with a later Work Capability Assessment to determine if she has limited capability for work or work related activity. If relevant and you're the one advising then do ask. 

Obviously well done for sticking with this and trying to assist given you have suffered as a result. I just hope that you eventually end up righted in monetary terms.

moneyunwise

Update:

pip evidence submitted as part of appeal. My concern is whether pip have seen it already and dismissed it. All I know is pip said last time that insufficient evidence and the person did not send anything to them. They assumed pip would get the evidence themselves. Question is: did pip get this stuff themselves last time?

uc sorted. How come nobody sorted this 18 months ago? It took about 6 seeks to sort.

Furniture grant: they put forward for this via their social worker applying to an organisation. That was December last year and in Feb this year they were told they were approved. Still nothing! All they can do is moan to the social worker who speaks to the organisation. So is something amiss?

Muttleythefrog

moneyunwise said:

Update:

pip evidence submitted as part of appeal. My concern is whether pip have seen it already and dismissed it. All I know is pip said last time that insufficient evidence and the person did not send anything to them. They assumed pip would get the evidence themselves. Question is: did pip get this stuff themselves last time?

uc sorted. How come nobody sorted this 18 months ago? It took about 6 seeks to sort.

Furniture grant: they put forward for this via their social worker applying to an organisation. That was December last year and in Feb this year they were told they were approved. Still nothing! All they can do is moan to the social worker who speaks to the organisation. So is something amiss?

Now the UC is getting sorted hopefully you can start getting money back. It's unfortunate that people like this don't get necessary support until a stranger steps in... Universal Credit is the go to benefit for those in need. As for PIP.. not sure what stage she's at... after initial decision there's the mandatory reconsideration which means another DWP Decision Maker will look again to make a new decision (most of the time it's the same but a notable minority it's different).. and then there is appeal to independent tribunal. A tribunal is a very different animal and will seriously look at all relevant evidence and hopefully have the claimant in attendance to give evidence. In terms of evidence the DWP will largely rely on the claimant to present their evidence.. the only evidence the DWP do tend to acquire is their own commissioned assessment and they tend to heavily rely on it for decision.

Not sure on the furniture issue.

But well done for sticking with this and trying to help at your own expense...and to be honest you've had to wade through misinformation and lack of information coming from the claimant themselves.

peteuk

moneyunwise said:

Update:

pip evidence submitted as part of appeal. My concern is whether pip have seen it already and dismissed it. All I know is pip said last time that insufficient evidence and the person did not send anything to them. They assumed pip would get the evidence themselves. Question is: did pip get this stuff themselves last time?

Im not sure where this comes from but a PIP assessor only has access to the paperwork you send them or previous PIP assessments.  A comment like insufficient evidence means there was little evidence to award a scoring descriptor.  This can be through little or no supporting evidence provided by the claimant, the evidence sent didn’t account for the claims or too little real life situations discussed at assesment.  

If the claimant has had a previous MR then that would be visible to the assessor but they do not have access to anyone’s GP or hospital records.  

So to answer your question: NO

moneyunwise

So my update is ... nothing to report. Any idea how long this stage will take before an assessment? It is about 9 months. This time, evidence is definitely being submitted so there is not much more that can be done from their side. The previous social worker has quit and the new one seems to be AWOL (apparently they are too busy with other cases, possibly those who are not getting any helpers, to get in touch).

diggingdude

moneyunwise said:

So my update is ... nothing to report. Any idea how long this stage will take before an assessment? It is about 9 months. This time, evidence is definitely being submitted so there is not much more that can be done from their side. The previous social worker has quit and the new one seems to be AWOL (apparently they are too busy with other cases, possibly those who are not getting any helpers, to get in touch).

As a former social worker please remember  we often have cases in excess of 100 in adults.  Very possible they are busy with more pressing cases/dealing with a lack of resources etc. We will help where we can but we are not benefit experts/trained to know those systems etc. Not saying you're not all being patient with them but remember to blame central govt for the state of affairs rather than an over worked and under appreciated cog in the machine. Best of luck with the assessment