2018 Peugeot 308 GT Line - HP w/ Engine Fault

iGeorgiiee

Good morning all,

Please do bear with me whilst I try to explain this. I took out a HP agreement from my local dealership for a 2018 Peugeot 308 GT Line. Car was nice, drove great and I didn't have any mechanical faults with it....until December 2023. I was driving down the motorway taking a mate to the airport for her flight, and it just died on me and I had to pull over on the hard shoulder. Been through the motions and got it recovered.

Anyway, I was intending on paying Peugeot for a diagnostics in the hope that they will compensate me, because the issue is with the wet timing belt corroding, clogging up the filter and killing the oil pressure. I have read online and I know that this is a manufacturer's fault. I had to take it to Peugeot so they could give me the certificate that says that. Only issue is, I've been told because it hasn't been serviced by Peugeot, they will absolutely not entertain me for compensation. On top of that, I got a call back from the Peugeot dealer to say they think its the issue I've mentioned, but they need to do extra work (remove sump and reseal) and that will cost me yet another £120 diagnostics fee (even though I was told it was £120 for a diagnostics, not per hour).

Anyway, I've now taken the decision to pull the plug on the car - I cannot afford to repair it, and its not sustainable. I have contacted my finance company (because I have paid half) to withdraw and hand the car back. Only issue is there is that they mentioned they would have someone to come out and inspect under BVRLA and it mentions that fair wear and tear is fine but I may be charged for anything that falls outside of that.

Does anybody a) have any experience of this and b) have any advice of how I can sort this?

I'm essentially paying a finance agreement for something that is not to the effect of what I signed up for (a car that moves), this is a manufacturer's fault but because I haven't had it serviced by Peugeot (I did it through the independent dealer I bought the car from) and I just feel at a complete loss as to what I can do with this. I can get the last 2 years service history from them, but they had a new computer system back when I had my first one done in 2021 so they have no record for this and what they did, what oil they used, they can only give me the stamp but no detail. I have a loan out in my bank ready to buy another car, but I am very apprehensive to spend that money and get the car if I'm going to be paying the monthly repayments of that, ON TOP of the fees that the finance company may potentially charge me.

Sorry for the life story, but I am absolutely stuck (and my mental state is starting to suffer lol), and I need to find a way to try and get rid of my current car without having to suffer for it because I need a car, but I can't afford to have the work done (potentially a new engine at this point) and I can't bring myself to get my new car until I know I'm not going to be paying for two.

Thanks for taking the time to read my tatters of a financial life and any advice or comments are very appreciated.

iGeorgiiee

Sorry, forgot to mention it was November 2020 I bought it, and its done just over 54k miles (it was around 24k when I got it).

Wonka_2

Unfortunately one of the fundamentals of VT (voluntary termination) is that the car must be in full working order - the BVRLA code about Wear and Tear is an additional level over and above that - so VT is ruled out for you as a get out clause.

What you've experienced is one of the reasons why some sort of warranty (or a savings pot) is needed for used cars on extended finance terms otherwise you risk the car dying with money still owing.

Given you've no proof of the 2021 service details then I can't see you've a leg to stand on in expecting Peugeot to stump up the repair costs or offer goodwill

maxmycardagain

Offer it for sale "as is" and pay off the finance?
Whats the balance?
ask for a settlement figure (not the same things)
Price up a used engine fitted?

I had a new Citroen in 2008, it had more warranty work every month, luckily it was running for its VT day....

stu12345_2

go to a local cheap garage, get it towed there, garage may do that. get them to take head off and rebuild and replace bent pistons, new belt , pulleys, etc, it may come to about £800 to £1000. do not put a used engine in it, it will cost you more and you don't know the history of that engine.

cos you will have to source a used engine yourself, get it delivered, the local garage won't get involved, then if the engine fails months later, you have no comeback. the local garage will say used engine, your decision, no comeback.

but if they repair with all new parts, then you know the work they did is warranted by them and legally as well..

Peugeot dealer will only fit a new engine at £5000 plus  labour, as easy  option,they may offer 10% off as a gesture of goodwill. now you see what your up against!

beg, steal , borrow to raise that money ! as the phrase goes 
I see you have a bank loan ready, well  make it around £1200 for 308 repairs.

do not hand car back to finance company they will hound you for £thousands, cos your 308 at moment not working is worth hundreds at most 

then you will be paying for 2 cars, one newish one, and one worth scrap value

use a small local independent garage to fix not a dealer, as dealers are £120 an hour, my local is £40 an hour

your car is worth lots when fixed, fix it then keep it knowing you won't have to change belt for at least 5 years

I sold my  2016 Peugeot 208 GTi by Peugeot sport last year to a DEALER for £12500, paid of finance , had lots of equity left over ,bought cheap runabout from eBay 
the 208 GTi was amazing, faultless 

your car with broken engine is worth say£400 scrap value or if sold for parts, , fix engine it's then worth £7000

I had a Corsa on finance on the past , belt broke at 80000 miles, got head and pistons repaired, local.garage, sold car privately, got new buyer to pay finance company directly.

in the future Google non interference engine cars, and you will see a list of cars which don't bend pistons if the belt snaps

Goudy

stu12345_2 said:

go to a local cheap garage, get it towed there, garage may do that. get them to take head off and rebuild and replace bent pistons, new belt , pulleys, etc, it may come to about £800 to £1000. do not put a used engine in it, it will cost you more and you don't know the history of that engine.

cos you will have to source a used engine yourself, get it delivered, the local garage won't get involved, then if the engine fails months later, you have no comeback. the local garage will say used engine, your decision, no comeback.

but if they repair with all new parts, then you know the work they did is warranted by them and legally as well..

Peugeot dealer will only fit a new engine at £5000 plus  labour, as easy  option,they may offer 10% off as a gesture of goodwill. now you see what your up against!

beg, steal , borrow to raise that money ! as the phrase goes 
I see you have a bank loan ready, well  make it around £1200 for 308 repairs.

do not hand car back to finance company they will hound you for £thousands, cos your 308 at moment not working is worth hundreds at most 

then you will be paying for 2 cars, one newish one, and one worth scrap value

use a small local independent garage to fix not a dealer, as dealers are £120 an hour, my local is £40 an hour

your car is worth lots when fixed, fix it then keep it knowing you won't have to change belt for at least 5 years

I sold my  2016 Peugeot 208 GTi by Peugeot sport last year to a DEALER for £12500, paid of finance , had lots of equity left over ,bought cheap runabout from eBay 
the 208 GTi was amazing, faultless 

your car with broken engine is worth say£400 scrap value or if sold for parts, , fix engine it's then worth £7000

I had a Corsa on finance on the past , belt broke at 80000 miles, got head and pistons repaired, local.garage, sold car privately, got new buyer to pay finance company directly.

in the future Google non interference engine cars, and you will see a list of cars which don't bend pistons if the belt snaps

The wet belt has taken out the oil pump as its started to break up, so it won't be just the top end that's ruined.

If the belt had just snapped then yes, chances are it's bent the valves and possibly damaged the pistons, but the oil pump feeds oil to the main crank bearing and big ends.
Starve them of oil and they'll heat up, expand and seize.

Oil is also pumped to the top to lube the cam shaft journals.

Oil isn't just a lubrication, it also helps cool all those parts than run it it.
Stop the cooling, everything heats up and expands and it all goes bang.

It would likely need a new oil pump, the oil galleries cleaned out and oil feed and return lines to things like the turbo (if it has one) need changing.

I agree with getting someone else to look at it, but with a view to reconditioning the entire engine and check and/or replace anything suspect.

There is a possibility a lot of it is still good, but one clogged oil galley and that could then wipe out all the hard work and cost. 

There are engine specialist that can do this for you, but there's a trade off of labour and parts against the labour of removing and fitting a new engine.
It takes hours to strip down, clean, check and repair, then hours to rebuild.

A Peugeot specialist might be better placed, they might have access to a used engine of known quality or are able to ship yours out to get it reconditioned if they think it's worthwhile.

Labour rates will also be far low than a dealer as well.

stu12345_2

if push comes to shove, getting a loan for a quality used engine would make the car last for many years, versus buying another used car.

as the previous post states, if there is more involved to repair this than expected, then yes, you may have to go down the route of a quality used and tested and warranted used engine.

not one pulled from a accident damaged car from a scrap yard.

but if it was me, I would not buy another car on a loan whilst paying finance on a car now worth scrap value.

there is also the matter of many mechanics these days aren't mechanics, they are replace and fit type technicians and don't have the knowledge how to strip and rebuild an engine, gearbox etc.

and I guess my Corsa was much simpler to fix than the Peugeot.
 I had a ford cortina and a capri both snap with no damage at all. non interference engines.

I also had another Vauxhall that wouldn't start first time at a petrol station, I pulled by the timing chain plastic cover to see belt snapped, but as I only cranked it once and got suspicious, I did none or very little damage.

or in the future you could also buy cars with timing chains instead.

yes one mechanic doing rebuild hourly is more" expensive" per hour than it cost to manufacture the original new engine per hour  in a production line in a car factory 

Ganga

Who ever came up with the idea of * Wet Belt * engines should be shot ,there is more than one thread on this forum about people having really expensive breakdowns due to this fiasco.

facade

Ganga said:

Who ever came up with the idea of * Wet Belt * engines should be shot ,there is more than one thread on this forum about people having really expensive breakdowns due to this fiasco.

Latest news is that Ford have admitted that there may, perhaps, possibly, be an outside chance of a teenie, tiny, virtually insignificant "issue" with the wet belt on certain model years of 1.0 ecobooms. (but everything else is perfectly awesome)

I predict that the wet belt will go the same way as the powershift.

Certainly no-one who knows about a wet belt will touch one, as this becomes more public second hand values will plummet, and new ones won't sell.

To the OP, the reason why Peugeot are laughing off your claim is that without absolute 100% cast iron proof that every single drop of oil that has ever gone into that engine is the correct super special "wet belt" oil, they can just brush it off as having been caused by using cheap fleet oil at some fast-fit garage.

Goudy

Powershift was a Ford name really, so it was simple to drop.

The gearbox it's self was a Getrag 6 speed dual dry clutch system. (6DCT250).
It was developed with Ford and Luk help.

The trouble with them only seems to effect the smaller cars as the clutch packs were much to light and weedy and tended to overheat too quickly, plus there was an inherent fault with the input shaft and seal and some electronic connectors.

These problems were investigated, either due to various court cases around the whole or some keen journalists and it came out Ford knew about these before they put them on sale.

These days they and a lot of other manufacturers use the wet clutch 7 speed Getrag (7DCT300)
I have one myself in a Renault Clio.
They tend to be far better but I read there could be problems with some factory welds on the clutch housing, hopefully they've corrected that now at the factory.

Yes, the "wet belt" in now becoming a menace.
A lot are now coming out of their warranty periods and out of the dealer networks and manufacturers/importers are washing their hands of these.

Manufacturers/importers will blame anything, wrong oil, lack of oil, lack of regular changes, lack of evidence of any of these etc bar the real reason behind their failures, which is they all rushed with designs to save money that helped lower consumption and emissions.

The manufacturers don't really care about these cars once they start getting down the line.
They know most come out of the dealer network once the warranty is coming to an end and a percentage of new cars still in warranty would have been taken out as well.

To them it's just a cost calculation, how many will they have pay to fix.
The answer is probably not that many.

Perhaps the problem is with the buyers and customers.
Have these things and how the manufacturers, dealers and importers have responded to them stopped people buying them?
It seems not. Millions are still all mad keen on them.

In other countries court cases have forced manufacturers to act, imposing heavy fines on Ford in particular (for the Powershift) forcing them to buy back cars and extend warranties.
There's even an ongoing court case in the US for fraud. (they knew about the problem before and mislead customers, apparently).

WellKnownSid

Goudy said:

Manufacturers/importers will blame anything, wrong oil, lack of oil, lack of regular changes, lack of evidence of any of these etc bar the real reason behind their failures, which is they all rushed with designs to save money that helped lower consumption and emissions.

The manufacturers don't really care about these cars once they start getting down the line.
They know most come out of the dealer network once the warranty is coming to an end and a percentage of new cars still in warranty would have been taken out as well.

To them it's just a cost calculation, how many will they have pay to fix.
The answer is probably not that many.

A good summary.  The vast majority of affected cars will be well outside the warranty period in terms of either in miles or age.  Even within the warranty period, unless the car had full main-dealer service history, they can walk away from this.