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Planning permission help needed if possible

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Comments

  • Section62 said:
    ProDave said:
    Section62 said:
    ProDave said:

    How much of a hurry are you?  turn the stable into a proper garden room type shed, and use it as a garden room.  Mow the grass like it is a garden.  Take any fence down.  then after (I think) 10 years if nobody has raised an issue you can get a certificate of lawful development to make it garden ground, and then try again for planning.
    If you've asked the council and they said 'no' then going ahead anyway is a good way of getting a planning enforcement notice served on you.
    He asked for permission to build a house, they said no because it is not residential land.  I am suggesting he quietly starts using it as residential land, and if he gets away with it long enough can get a lawful development certificate for that which removed one of the hurdles for building on it.

    Of course they may notice, and slap an enforcement on it, in which case he is no further forward, but it has to be worth a try?
    The application for a dwelling would also involve change of use of the land from whatever it is (agricultural/horticultural?) to residential - it is the change of land use which is the primary problem, not the concept of a building (and it also appears the OP wanted a conversion of the building, not a new build).

    Trying to stealthily change the land use to residential after the council have said 'no' is the problem.

    Also In this case, if I've understod the situation correctly, it isn't a case of the OP extending their existing garden into a piece of neighbouring land, but rather having a standalone plot.  In that case it wouldn't be enough to cut the grass as it it were lawn and convert the stables into a garden room - it wouldn't be a residential use unless someone was living on it.  And in the case of this specific site, someone managing to live here without the council being made aware is not going to happen.
    Yes first of all we put in full permission to build one dwelling then it went to appeal and it got rejected then we decided to try and do change of use on the stable block on a pre-application this is a standalone plot.Thanks 

  • ProDave
    ProDave Posts: 3,700 Forumite
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    A (suitably anonymised) plan of how the paddock, stable etc fit in with the surrounding houses and their gardens might yield more advice.  Otherwise it does seem it's a non starter.
  • Section62
    Section62 Posts: 7,742 Forumite
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    ProDave said:
    A (suitably anonymised) plan of how the paddock, stable etc fit in with the surrounding houses and their gardens might yield more advice.  Otherwise it does seem it's a non starter.
    From the OP's description I think I've worked out the plot, and based on the council's comments I do think it is a non-starter.

    The plot is outside the settlement boundary, and if the previous application has been refused on appeal there doesn't appear to be much hope.

    The neighbouring plot that had consent for a new dwelling appears to be just within the settlement boundary.  The houses opposite appear to be council houses probably from the 40's/50's when different planning considerations took priority

    I think the only realistic way forward is to wait for the neighbourhood plan review and lobby for the settlement boundary to be amended - but I suspect this is likely to be resisted by the locals.

    Part of the problem here may be that the plot appears to be relatively large (could be developed for say 10 to 15 dwellings) which means that a settlement boundary alteration to permit one dwelling could open the way for a much larger development.  In that respect, building adjacent to the new neighbouring dwelling could result in a smaller settlement boundary modification than would be required for conversion of the stable block. But a new dwelling is probably harder to get consent for than a conversion.

    The settlement involved is on the fringe of a much larger urban area, which has been expanding and is due to expand a lot more in the area around this village.  The settlement has a strong sense of identity separate from the adjacent urban area and for a long time locals have felt their village is being swamped by the urban area and this is something they are resisting.  Development on the side of the settlement where the OP's plot of land is would push the boundaries further into the countryside.

    It also appears there is a long history (back to the 90's at least) of the council refusing residential development on this site (the OP will know if this is correct) so I think it will take something quite dramatic for the council to have a change of heart now.
  • lincroft1710
    lincroft1710 Posts: 17,602 Forumite
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    As your appeal was rejected, for the time being this is virtually the end of the matter.

    Appeals often succeed where it is considered the planning authority are being too restrictive or not really having a good enough reason to refuse PP.  

    Would suggest you wait 3 or 5 years and re-apply. Local planning policy may have been relaxed or you may find a more sympathetic response upon appeal
    If you are querying your Council Tax band would you please state whether you are in England, Scotland or Wales
  • That’s great, thanks ever so much for your help and information. Much appreciated.
  • Just thinking of some other options , didn’t know if anyone would know any thing about  this. 
    Been looking at this for a little while shipping containers as homes have seen a lot of stuff and people doing them. 
    They wouldn’t be a permanent fixture to the ground, they are classed As a mobile and there are different rules and regulations for them like a caravan. Just wondering if anybody would know any information on this
    Thanks 

  • Section62
    Section62 Posts: 7,742 Forumite
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    Just thinking of some other options , didn’t know if anyone would know any thing about  this. 
    Been looking at this for a little while shipping containers as homes have seen a lot of stuff and people doing them. 
    They wouldn’t be a permanent fixture to the ground, they are classed As a mobile and there are different rules and regulations for them like a caravan. Just wondering if anybody would know any information on this

    Your issue will still be with the residential use.  If you wanted to site a caravan or any other temporary/portable structure on the land then you'll have to comply with the applicable planning restrictions.

    People in the same kind of situation you are in often try to use 'temporary' buildings as a stepping stone towards getting residential consent.  In general councils are wise to this and will take enforcement action.  Your council is particulay good at spotting these situations and doing something about it.

    Shipping containers that look like shipping containers (e.g. for storage) will leave you vulnerable on the 'concealment' enforcement angle.

    Also, with one of your children being ill you'd need to think whether any temporary building solution would be appropriate to their health needs.  Maintaining a healthy living environment can be difficult in buildings which aren't designed for long-term occupation.
  • timehastoldme
    timehastoldme Posts: 358 Forumite
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    edited 26 January at 7:58AM
    I saw this video about planning permission for a stable, I don't recommend this course of action mind

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/bungalow-stable-for-noddy-the-horse/z7d9y9q
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