Having to Pay For Car Software Update Only 5 Months After Purchase

MattM77

First post so please be kind!

We bought a 2019 plate Renault Kadjar in August 2023 from Arnold Clark Renault (hasty purchase after previous car died day before being needed for a summer road trip). A few weeks back I had to top up t he Adblue. After the top up, the 'top up' message remained, eventually getting to the miles countdown before the engine won't restart.

So today the car has been back at Arnold Clark. They have diagnosed that the car needs a software update, but as this isn't covered by the warranty taken out I need to pay the £140 diagnostic charge. When I saw the Adblue warning didn't reset, I researched online and several people had said a software update solved it, but in some cases that also caused issues with a water pump which then needed replacing. These posts were back in 2021.

So my point is this. It doesn't seem fair that Arnold Clark can sell me a car, that then has a known error appear 4 months later, but charge me to rectify? I questioned that I presumed they ensured all software was up to date before reselling vehicles, but was told only the Sat Nav and Entertainment System are updated. When I bought it there were no outstanding recalls. So I'm today paying £140 to solve an issue on my car, that technically was there from before I bought it!

Grumpy_chap

MattM77 said:

First post so please be kind!

We bought a 2019 plate Renault Kadjar in August 2023 from Arnold Clark Renault (hasty purchase after previous car died day before being needed for a summer road trip). A few weeks back I had to top up t he Adblue. After the top up, the 'top up' message remained, eventually getting to the miles countdown before the engine won't restart.

So today the car has been back at Arnold Clark. They have diagnosed that the car needs a software update, but as this isn't covered by the warranty taken out I need to pay the £140 diagnostic charge. When I saw the Adblue warning didn't reset, I researched online and several people had said a software update solved it, but in some cases that also caused issues with a water pump which then needed replacing. These posts were back in 2021.

So my point is this. It doesn't seem fair that Arnold Clark can sell me a car, that then has a known error appear 4 months later, but charge me to rectify? I questioned that I presumed they ensured all software was up to date before reselling vehicles, but was told only the Sat Nav and Entertainment System are updated. When I bought it there were no outstanding recalls. So I'm today paying £140 to solve an issue on my car, that technically was there from before I bought it!

When was the software update that is required released?
Is there a record of the car having been serviced by a Renault garage since the software update was released?

mexican_dave

I think sales of second hand cars sales to consumers are protected now under Consumer Rights Act 2015. Refer to https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/everyday-money/buying-and-running-a-car/your-rights-if-something-is-wrong-with-your-car#:~:text=The Act states the car,of purchase in most cases.

boxosox

If the fault is the software that came with the car, then surely you can argue the fault has been there since the car was built in 2019.

So can't you go to Renault and have them update the software for free as part of your consumer rights?

chrisw

I agree. I can understand 'nice to have' updates not being included in the warranty, but one which affects the fundamental operation of the vehicle so soon after purchase should be sorted by the seller. Escalate it within Arnold Clark and even Renault UK, the cost to them will be nothing like £140 and might 'restore your faith' in them.

WellKnownSid

chrisw said:

the cost to them will be nothing like £140 and might 'restore your faith' in them.

And you know that how? Software updates on modern cars can take hours if they go wrong and tie up the most senior tech (opportunity cost). If it’s so easy, maybe the OP could invest in the software and training?

I don’t disagree that this should have be carried out pre sale but you can also see their side of the argument if Renault aren’t going to foot the bill…

sheramber

Just to be clear is the charge for the diagnostics or for the software update?

born_again

Try taking it to another Renault dealer. They may do it for free.

Mildly_Miffed

What does the used-car warranty actually say?

Is it this warranty?
https://www.arnoldclark.com/cdn/static/servicing/complete-aftercare/autocare/autocare_06_23.pdf

Neither AdBlue nor software updates are mentioned in the list of things covered (and anything not included is explicitly excluded. DPF systems are explicitly excluded.

Would you have this bill if it was a car you'd owned from new, of the same age/condition/mileage? Yes.
Is it an issue reasonable to expect on a five year old car? I'd say, also, yes.

I suspect the £140 you're being asked to pay is one hour's labour at main dealer rates.
This is not unusual or unreasonable as a minimum charge - because by the time the technician has gone to find the car, moved it into the bay, done basic health checks to make sure it's safe to update, connected it up, installed the update, checked it's all installed OK, moved the car out, done the paperwork - that's easily going to have taken an hour...

daveyjp

Arnold Clark.  Enough said,  if the software is causing an error its a warranty claim and all software should be updated as part of a service.  Its within 6 months so the assumption is the problem was there at handover.

I know software was updated on my last car as a few weeks after I bought it I had a recall notice about a software issue.  Took it to the dealer and they advised the latest version of software was uploaded at the pre handover service.

droopsnoot

sheramber said:

Just to be clear is the charge for the diagnostics or for the software update?

The OP says that the £140 is for the diagnostic, though it's not clear if the software update itself carries a further charge. Presumably the diagnostic charge is waived if fault(s) it discovers are covered on the warranty, but because the software update is not, it is chargeable. 

When I read that the software update solves this issue "but in some cases that also caused issues with a water pump which then needed replacing" it does make me think that perhaps there's a little too much software in modern cars, though of course it may not be the engine water pump that is being talked about here.