Variable to fixed Direct Debit

QrizB

danrv said:

It may be that I could find a competitive single rate tariff with another supplier but prices will change whoever I'm with. Have always been with Eon.

For the past year or more, Octopus Tracker has been about 30% cheaper than the standard variable tariff. There's a chart for my region here:

https://energy-stats.uk/octopus-tracker-southern-england/

The risk, of course, is that it will stop being cheaper.

danrv said:

I know that if I came off E10, I wouldn't be able to get it back.

That's likely to be true.

What are your unit rates on E10 at the moment? We can work out what your annual use would cost, and compare it to the price on the current ap.

The national averge cap is currently 28.62p/kWh and 53.35p/day, so 3538.5kWh per year will cost £1207.45 per year.

dealyboy

@QrizB ... in this post https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80540817/#Comment_80540817

Edit: I make that currently paying £1,170 (using your SC).

QrizB

dealyboy said:

@QrizB ... in this post https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80540817/#Comment_80540817

Thanks!

• 17.635p/kWh cheap rate from 7am to 5pm.
• Then it's 34.830p/kWh for the rest of the time.

So if we assume you also pay 53.35p/day in standing charges, your annual use will cost £1170.05.

E10 is (potentially) saving you £37.40 a year vs. the national average single-rate variable tariff. Tht's what you risk losing out on if you switch away from E10 and can't switch back.

Octopus Tracker, on the other hand, has averaged about 21p/kWh for the last year. You'd have paid something like £940 for the year.

danrv

QrizB said:

dealyboy said:

@QrizB ... in this post https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80540817/#Comment_80540817

Thanks!

• 17.635p/kWh cheap rate from 7am to 5pm.
• Then it's 34.830p/kWh for the rest of the time.

So if we assume you also pay 53.35p/day in standing charges, your annual use will cost £1170.05.

E10 is (potentially) saving you £37.40 a year vs. the national average single-rate variable tariff. Tht's what you risk losing out on if you switch away from E10 and can't switch back.

Octopus Tracker, on the other hand, has averaged about 21p/kWh for the last year. You'd have paid something like £940 for the year.

Thanks, that's useful.
41.761p a day standing charge.
Also says this on the statement:
'Remember - it might be worth thinking about changing your tariff or supplier'.

Don't quite understand that. Tariff yes but leave, no.
Have considered Octopus as a cheaper alternative. I don't think it will be too bad to leave Economy 10. Single rate and a smart meter/usage display would help as the property's all electric.

Scot_39

dealyboy said:

danrv said:

Usage for 2023 is:
Day  2043.1 kWh
Night  1495.4 kWh

I think that makes it approximately 73/27 split day/night.

... I make that 1495.4 / 3538.5 (night / total) = 42.26% night. If so that is borderline night vs. day usage for E7 cost effectiveness ... https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/economy-7/#cutcosts.

And

QrizB said:

» show previous quotes

That's 3538.5kWh total, 58% day, 42% night. The exact % split that Ofgem assumes for an E7 customer, and the % at which a single-rate tariff is a very similar price to E10.

Except of course the OP isn't on E7 currently and it's nominal 42% price basis - but E10.

And potentially worse for the OP if upgrades - it's E10 currently significantly off proper timing.

Many suppiers I expect will want a new meter fitted regardless as not to E7 type currently and currently not smart.

It's at my guess anyway unlikely the OP would be able to maintain the 42% if switched to proper metered E10 - but thats only a guess as some activity eg. early AM showering etc is now possibly billed at peak and would go cheaper  - and other activity during day (7am is 10 hrs before OPs ends c5pm) billed wrongly at off peak.

And proper metered E7 - likely to have less off peak too 

(Some suppliers did appear to allow E10 users on older meters in past onto E7 years ago without meter changing - but suspect rare now given pressure to have latest gen smart meter rollout. IIRC in past some then did gave the full 10 hours at E7 rates - others more complex - like apparently splitting the off peak register 70% off peak / 30% peak - to reflect hour reductions - from posts on the now defunct - for a decent time now - old economy10.com forums possibly years ago).

E10 and E7 vs the 42:58% Split

And E10 (and other legacy multirate tariffs for that matter) doesn't - I have been told here by quite knowledgible sounding people - in past - have to follow the 42% rule.

Even when Ofgem talk about the TDCV and split assuumption for profile class 2 - they label it as 42:58 for E7 (I read that, given what I was told before - to mean only for E7)

It certainly hasn't recently in my region of late - last Q - E7 off peak was c4p cheaper (c14p iirc - would need to find the old or new rate to do more accurately) vs 17.8p - and peak the same c35p) than E10 with EOnNext in EM.  

Unless I have gotten the neccessary maths wrong (format not arithmetic - please correct me - as the 50% plus is quite a mix shift) I made that just over 50% breakeven on E10 when did the maths - as high as 53% at one stage last year to match SR during EPG discounting.

e.g.

E7 c14 (?)  x .42 + 35.1 x .58 = c26.2p ave

E10 @42% 17.98x .42 + 35.1 x .58 = 27.9p ave

E10 @50% 17.98x .50 + 35.1 x .50 = 26.5p ave 

- so need a smidge over 50% to get down to the same as E7 at 42%

And they are not the only E10 supplier off of the c42% E7 norm with E10 rates

When I checked EDF E10 tables - they were penalising the peak rate rather than the off-peak rate - iirc c5p over the summer (Q3 / July rates I guess when checked)

Yep still true - e.g. EM DD rates - from their tables at 

https://www.edfenergy.com/gas-and-electricity/energy-price-guarantee

current Q E10 = 40.94p 16.28p current QE7 = 34.99p 16.28p.  So now 5.95p more peak in EM region (chosen simply as top of thier price tables)

SR = 28.02p

E7 @42 = 16.28*.42+34.99x 0.58 = 27.13p ave

E10@42 = 16.28x0.42+40.94x0.58 = 30.58p ave

E10 @50 = 16.28x0.5+40.94x0.5 = 28.61p ave

E10 @55 = 16.28x0.55+40.94x0.45 = 27.4p  - so a smidge over 55% to match E7 @42% averge rate - but lower in 50s c 52.5% to match SR

Put simply in both cases - with one side of the see saw fixed and the other higher - than there is going to need a different level - so use weighted towards the cheap end to match the same fixed price - e.g. regional single rate.

I did think maybe I could swap to save on EDF - but I wouldn't have in summer given their high off-peak rate, and others who switched old meters to them for the E region sub10p reported issues with rate swap and other issues etc. In end decided not worth the hassle (heracy on MSE I know)

PS I have been known to dip below the 50% level in some summer weeks (but not for months on end).  But annually E10 - even as I think I am - a fairly low heat consumer - hit around 75-80% off peak last couple of years.

Edit PS

In order to update the above EOn example properly -

I found a list of EOnNext regional SR and E7/E10 pricing before - but just googled and come up short - anyone know one ?

danrv

Latest monthly bill is fairly high at £152.86.
Current plan is Next Flex E10 Variable Plan with no end date but Eon Next have several offers available. Starting with cheapest:

Next Secure Fixed April 12m V5
£91.93 pm
£1103.25 py

Next Pledge Tracker 12m V3
£96.01 pm
£1152.14 py

Next Fixed 24m V8
£96.15 pm 
£1153.83 py

Next Flex 12M V9
£96.47 pm
£1157.69 py

Next Flex 
£98.24 pm
£1178.99 py

Next Flex 24m V8
No exit fees 
£102.85 pm
£1234.28 py

Next Flex Fixed 12m V9
No exit fees
£103.18 pm
£1238.19 py

Some of them are subject to agreeing to have a Smart Meter fitted where eligible.
The unit prices are cheaper, particularly night rate at half the cost of what I'm currently paying.

Gerry1

I'm surprised you want to be on Equal DDs: IMHO they're for people who can't budget, but I doubt that you fall into that category.

Far better to choose Monthly Variable DD.  Pay a suitable amount into an instant access savings account every month and then you'll be getting 4-5% interest rather than donating it to your supplier.

danrv

Gerry1 said:

Pay a suitable amount into an instant access savings account every month and then you'll be getting 4-5% interest rather than donating it to your supplier.

Good idea. I have an Everyday Saver account as well as current with my bank.
I can easily move some money over and then change the account details for the DD.

Scot_39

danrv said:

Latest monthly bill is fairly high at £152.86.
Current plan is Next Flex E10 Variable Plan with no end date but Eon Next have several offers available. Starting with cheapest:

Next Secure Fixed April 12m V5
£91.93 pm
£1103.25 py

Next Pledge Tracker 12m V3
£96.01 pm
£1152.14 py

Next Fixed 24m V8
£96.15 pm 
£1153.83 py

Next Flex 12M V9
£96.47 pm
£1157.69 py

Next Flex 
£98.24 pm
£1178.99 py

Next Flex 24m V8
No exit fees 
£102.85 pm
£1234.28 py

Next Flex Fixed 12m V9
No exit fees
£103.18 pm
£1238.19 py

Some of them are subject to agreeing to have a Smart Meter fitted where eligible.
The unit prices are cheaper, particularly night rate at half the cost of what I'm currently paying.

In my experience all of them - the fixes - will be subject to a non E10 tariff system - but gave up asking years ago.

Not that I expect it to survive the next meter upgrade anyway from a poster here.

So do the calculations carefully.

In past switching to E7 cost my elderly neighbours more - despite much cheaper night rates. Based on their experience I'd be addi g costs of upgrading nsh or going air to air room reverse ac /  Hest pump when lose e10.

QrizB

Scot_39 said:

Based on their experience I'd be addi g costs of upgrading nsh or going air to air room reverse ac /  Hest pump when lose e10.

You're replying to danrv, who's heat pump is famous on this board.