Is it possible to change times when the E7 night circuit is ON?

to_be_FTB
to_be_FTB Posts: 51
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Hi All, 
I have two circuits that were set up for storage heater use on E7 tariff. These are controlled by the E470 Series 3 SMETS2 Smartmeter.

The storage heater circuit is only active during the cheap night rate, e.g. 1 am - 8 am. Does anyone know if it is possible (and if so how to do it) to change the times when the storage heater circuit is ON? I realise that this would mean that the storage heater circuit would be active during the more expensive day rate, but I am OK with that and I would like to shift the ON time by couple of hours. 

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  • doodling
    doodling Posts: 939
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    Hi,

    It could be done by using the smart meter 5th terminal to drive a contactor rather than directly feeding the E7 circuits, with a parallel contactor driven by a separate timer.

    You would need an electrician to implement this and it would probably require the replacement of at least one of your consumer units.

    It should be noted that this is a very odd thing to do and I suggest that understanding why you would want to do this would lead to a better, more conventional, solution.
  • lohr500
    lohr500 Posts: 925
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    I would also start with the question of why you want to do this and what are you trying to achieve?
  • Scot_39
    Scot_39 Posts: 1,689
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    edited 18 January at 6:55PM
    AS above

    Why ?

    Please clarify what you have currently running on the off-peak supply, the 2 "were setup for" connections, and what you hope to achieve by dong so ?

    And are you saying thats old legacy wiring - you say "were set up" - and you no longer have storage heaters - but want to use same wiring ?

    And do you want the change to all or only some of your off-peak wiring connected devices or just the 2 mentioned spur connections ?

    Do you even want E7 metering at all if without NSH ?


    There are various options including converting spurs to 24.7 live and fitting mechanical or digital timer modules, a meter cabinet style contactor and external timer  to feed off-peak section of consumer unit etc to control devices - but thats only a how.

    The real question is what benefit do you expect from doing so ?  Earlier heating - earlier hot water etc ?

  • to_be_FTB
    to_be_FTB Posts: 51
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    edited 19 January at 10:35AM
    Thanks for your replies.

    I still have a couple of storage heaters remaining, but they are mostly used as a back up heating 
    (few days per year) as I mostly use A2A heat pump. So the "night" circuit is mostly used for heating water. 

    (I use 60% electricity in the off peak hours, so it seems to make sense to keep E7 tariff though)

    So here is why:

    I have an immersion tank with two heating elements and timer control. The bottom heating element is on the cheap circuit, the top element (boost) on the 24h one. 

    What I would like to do, is to set my immersion tank heating to only heat small amount of water during most days (ie only use the top heating element). This can be done with the boost function, but the boost function cannot be switched on when there is power coming in through the night circuit (I guess this is to prevent both elements being accidentally switched on simultaneously). The consequence of this, is that I can only use the top heating element during expensive hours. 

    What I would like to achieve by shifting the time when the night circuit is ON, is to have the option of either using the top heating or the bottom heating element (when I occasionally need the full tank heated) during the cheap tariff.

    I thought maybe it was as easy as changing some settings on the meter, and that would save me from doing any rewiring?

    My plan B was to get rid of the second circuit altogether (put everything on 24h one) and then control both immersion tank and storage heaters (when used) by timers. This would probably require changing the controller that drives the heating elements in the immersion tank, and I guess an electrician as it does not sound like a DIY job! 

    [I guess I could also achieve what I want by switching off the fuse when I do not want to use the bottom heating element, but that has other drawbacks...]



  • Swipe
    Swipe Posts: 5,016
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    Have a look through your smart meter menu. You may find it has a manual boost function. I know mine does but I've never actually enabled it.
  • QrizB
    QrizB Posts: 13,665
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    to_be_FTB said:
    I thought maybe it was as easy as changing some settings on the meter, and that would save me from doing any rewiring?
    No user-adjustable settings on a meter.
    The simplest option is probably to fit a change-over switch to let you switch which immersion is connected to the E7 feed. Something like this:
    (Not a recommended supplier, for illustration only.)
    N. Hampshire, he/him. Octopus Go elec & Tracker gas / Shell BB / Lyca mobi. Ripple Kirk Hill member.
    2.72kWp PV facing SSW installed Jan 2012. 11 x 247w panels, 3.6kw inverter. 30MWh generated, long-term average 2.6 Os.
    Ofgem cap table, Ofgem cap explainer. Economy 7 cap explainer. Gas vs E7 vs peak elec heating costs.
  • SAC2334
    SAC2334 Posts: 735
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    doodling said:
    Hi,

    It could be done by using the smart meter 5th terminal to drive a contactor rather than directly feeding the E7 circuits, with a parallel contactor driven by a separate timer.

    You would need an electrician to implement this and it would probably require the replacement of at least one of your consumer units.

    It should be noted that this is a very odd thing to do and I suggest that understanding why you would want to do this would lead to a better, more conventional, solution.
    How are you going to access the smart meter fifth terminal . If you remove the lower cover it activates the meter tamper sensor and sends a tamper alert to the supplier.
  • Gerry1
    Gerry1 Posts: 9,769
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    edited 19 January at 11:16AM
    QrizB said:
    to_be_FTB said:
    I thought maybe it was as easy as changing some settings on the meter, and that would save me from doing any rewiring?
    No user-adjustable settings on a meter.
    Nope.
    Activating 'Boost' functionality on Liberty 110/112 meters

    If you’re an Economy 7 customer with a Secure Liberty 110/112 (5-port) meter and you’d like to activate the appliance that’s connected to your fifth terminal during peak hours, you can do so using the smart meter keypad.

    You can activate this either on the IHD or the meter up to 10 times a day and it will turn on anything attached to the 5th terminal for 1 hour, this will be charged at the peak unit rate.

    To activate the boost function:

    • Via the meter, press '2' on the keypad and press the 'A' button to activate - you'll hear a click when the boost has been activated and your meter display will read 'BOOST ON'
    • Via the Pipit IHDpress 'Dual Fuel' and then tap on the 'Status' button at the bottom of the screen on the electric side of the display
    https://forum.ovoenergy.com/smart-meters-136/ovo-smets1-secure-liberty-100-110-smart-meter-guide-8584
  • QrizB
    QrizB Posts: 13,665
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    SAC2334 said:
    How are you going to access the smart meter fifth terminal . If you remove the lower cover it activates the meter tamper sensor and sends a tamper alert to the supplier.
    You wouldn't remove the lower cover, you'd use the other end of the E7 switched tail that's currently connected to the E7 consumer unit.

    N. Hampshire, he/him. Octopus Go elec & Tracker gas / Shell BB / Lyca mobi. Ripple Kirk Hill member.
    2.72kWp PV facing SSW installed Jan 2012. 11 x 247w panels, 3.6kw inverter. 30MWh generated, long-term average 2.6 Os.
    Ofgem cap table, Ofgem cap explainer. Economy 7 cap explainer. Gas vs E7 vs peak elec heating costs.
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