Seeking an outside opinion: resigning while off sick and unresolved investigation

Undervalued

Zaxb said:

Purplelady65 said:

I am very sorry to hear what has happened to your partner. It sounds a very stressful situation. I can understand your partner wanting this all resolved before she resigns after 25 years at the organisation. As she works for a public sector organisation I’m surprised that what seems to be a fairly minor breach of policy has turned into a management investigation. If she was smoking and not even on the employer’s premises then it does seem very heavy handed to invoke an investigation. 

Unfortunately in the public sector investigations do take a long time mainly due to managers’ availability to investigate and the workload in HR departments to support. 

Thank you for your support and advice.

The wait has been very unhelpful, which is why she has taken the decision to take back control of the situation and leave despite it still being unresolved. Resignation letter to ask that they take this to a formal conclusion and giving willingness to cooperate in any further part of process.

Letter goes in tomorrow

Well fair enough but you will have to accept that there is nothing she can do to force a "formal conclusion" if the employer ignores (or refuses) that request.

Zaxb

Undervalued said:

Zaxb said:

Thank you for your support and advice.

The wait has been very unhelpful, which is why she has taken the decision to take back control of the situation and leave despite it still being unresolved. Resignation letter to ask that they take this to a formal conclusion and giving willingness to cooperate in any further part of process.

Letter goes in tomorrow

Well fair enough but you will have to accept that there is nothing she can do to force a "formal conclusion" if the employer ignores (or refuses) that request.

Just as an update in case anyone was following this thread.

Resignation letter tendered as above.

Employer have acknowledged receipt of resignation and have agreed to request to take this to a formal conclusion. They have at last made a decision on the outcome of the investigation stage and have scheduled a disciplinary hearing to take place during notice period. As there really is so little to this and as OH has tendered her resignation we had hoped that they would simply see no merit of continuing and close it after the investigatory stage - as happened following the previous investigation. At the very worst I would anticipate a "training need" - which seems pointless as she won't be there. However, that is the down side of getting what you ask for.

The upside is we now know the allegation, which has two parts to it. We also now have sight of the only (other) witness statement.

It does raise a couple of issues, though. 

The witness states that certain procedures which they say are "always" followed were not followed.

We know that this is simply not true in that these procedures are quite commonly not followed in respect of the action given in this account, and that this person knows this and has been present on such previous occasions. However, there seems to be little merit in calling the witness or challenging them on this as they are likely to stick to the story they gave in the statement.

The previous investigation which was raised into an earlier incident found there was no action needed and that no disciplinary hearing was necessary. My OH received a letter informing her of this and stating that there would be no record of the investigation placed on her personnel file. It is our belief that during this previous investigation the existence of other staff carrying out similar practices to those which my OH now stands accused of, and which the witness in this case states categorically do not happen, were uncovered, along with breaches of WTD and inconsistent applications of policies across differing work sites. Her manager in effect told her this, including stating that they were aware that some staff did smoke while on duty in public settings.

While at the time we were simply happy that there was no progression to a formal disciplinary hearing it now occurs to me that this has actually acted to deprive my OH of documented evidence which would be of use in defending this allegation.

My (admittedly biased) view is that the supervisor has been coordinating a campaign to force my OH out over an extended period. They used an incident in which my OH did patently breach protocol (in a moment of stress while awaiting an update on a critical health issue affecting a close relative - which sadly then did lead to bereavement #1) to initiate formal investigation. This investigation revealed serious failings by the employer which were known about within the service but which HR had been unaware of and which potentially opened them up to outside regulatory action, and the decision was made at a higher level to squash the process to prevent this happening. At the time we did raise a FOI to see if the employer had an active exemption from certain WTD rules and it was confirmed that there were no collective agreements or exemptions through special circumstance in place. 

The supervisor was annoyed that this first attempt had not worked and actively looked for another opportunity to raise an investigation. A second quick bereavement again led to an uncharacteristic act on the part of my OH - smoking in public - which presented an opportunity for the supervisor to again initiate formal disciplinary process. That this incident occurred "off-site" and did not involve the same WTD issues removed the jeopardy which the previous investigation had unveiled is to me a material factor in this case seemingly being allowed to continue. 

It does raise questions in my mind whether an investigation which has been "closed with no further action" and which does not appear on a personnel file can be used to evidence a concerted pattern of behavior on the part of an employer, or can be used to prove their knowledge of common breaches or protocols by other staff which have not led to disciplinary action.

Undervalued

Zaxb said:

Undervalued said:

Zaxb said:

Thank you for your support and advice.

The wait has been very unhelpful, which is why she has taken the decision to take back control of the situation and leave despite it still being unresolved. Resignation letter to ask that they take this to a formal conclusion and giving willingness to cooperate in any further part of process.

Letter goes in tomorrow

Well fair enough but you will have to accept that there is nothing she can do to force a "formal conclusion" if the employer ignores (or refuses) that request.

Just as an update in case anyone was following this thread.

Resignation letter tendered as above.

Employer have acknowledged receipt of resignation and have agreed to request to take this to a formal conclusion. They have at last made a decision on the outcome of the investigation stage and have scheduled a disciplinary hearing to take place during notice period. As there really is so little to this and as OH has tendered her resignation we had hoped that they would simply see no merit of continuing and close it after the investigatory stage - as happened following the previous investigation. At the very worst I would anticipate a "training need" - which seems pointless as she won't be there. However, that is the down side of getting what you ask for.

The upside is we now know the allegation, which has two parts to it. We also now have sight of the only (other) witness statement.

It does raise a couple of issues, though. 

The witness states that certain procedures which they say are "always" followed were not followed.

We know that this is simply not true in that these procedures are quite commonly not followed in respect of the action given in this account, and that this person knows this and has been present on such previous occasions. However, there seems to be little merit in calling the witness or challenging them on this as they are likely to stick to the story they gave in the statement.

The previous investigation which was raised into an earlier incident found there was no action needed and that no disciplinary hearing was necessary. My OH received a letter informing her of this and stating that there would be no record of the investigation placed on her personnel file. It is our belief that during this previous investigation the existence of other staff carrying out similar practices to those which my OH now stands accused of, and which the witness in this case states categorically do not happen, were uncovered, along with breaches of WTD and inconsistent applications of policies across differing work sites. Her manager in effect told her this, including stating that they were aware that some staff did smoke while on duty in public settings.

While at the time we were simply happy that there was no progression to a formal disciplinary hearing it now occurs to me that this has actually acted to deprive my OH of documented evidence which would be of use in defending this allegation.

My (admittedly biased) view is that the supervisor has been coordinating a campaign to force my OH out over an extended period. They used an incident in which my OH did patently breach protocol (in a moment of stress while awaiting an update on a critical health issue affecting a close relative - which sadly then did lead to bereavement #1) to initiate formal investigation. This investigation revealed serious failings by the employer which were known about within the service but which HR had been unaware of and which potentially opened them up to outside regulatory action, and the decision was made at a higher level to squash the process to prevent this happening. At the time we did raise a FOI to see if the employer had an active exemption from certain WTD rules and it was confirmed that there were no collective agreements or exemptions through special circumstance in place. 

The supervisor was annoyed that this first attempt had not worked and actively looked for another opportunity to raise an investigation. A second quick bereavement again led to an uncharacteristic act on the part of my OH - smoking in public - which presented an opportunity for the supervisor to again initiate formal disciplinary process. That this incident occurred "off-site" and did not involve the same WTD issues removed the jeopardy which the previous investigation had unveiled is to me a material factor in this case seemingly being allowed to continue. 

It does raise questions in my mind whether an investigation which has been "closed with no further action" and which does not appear on a personnel file can be used to evidence a concerted pattern of behavior on the part of an employer, or can be used to prove their knowledge of common breaches or protocols by other staff which have not led to disciplinary action.

I am at a total loss to understand what you feel this is going to achieve?

Purplelady65

Would your OH have emails relating to the previous case confirming no further action. You could potentially refer to them in any correspondence related to this case and also refer to them in the actual hearing. Are you aware of any other employees being put through a disciplinary hearing for smoking?