Seeking an outside opinion: resigning while off sick and unresolved investigation

Savvy_Sue

It does not appear there is any stress free way of getting 'closure'. So she needs to work out which is the 'best' way to go: to resign (at which point the employer breathes a sigh of relief), or to raise a grievance. 

Personally if I was going to raise a grievance, it would be against HR for their failure to resolve this in a timely manner, and against the line manager for all the issues I could think of. But I'd be more likely to resign.

Not in a union, presumably?

Zaxb

lincroft1710 said:

You say

"She is rightly proud of the work she has done over that time and leaving under such a cloud is not how she would want to be remembered"


Peoples' memories can be very short regarding coworkers who have left and the actual work done could be forgotten or even archived. Your partner should not worry about this.

I do appreciate that, yes. The other side of that coin however is that she is rightly proud and it does matter to her. If you had dedicated 25 years of your life to doing something and the last thing which happened was an open question mark on your ability to do your job then I can't imagine that it would be a particularly satisfactory situation for you either. This was practically her entire working career, not just a temporary or short term job in a long CV.

It is quite simple to simply tell someone that they should not worry about this, and please believe me I have spent a lot of time over the past year telling her variations on just that, including that she should try not to worry about things over which she has no control - especially on long sleepless Sunday nights - but some people are natural worriers. It does matter to them what others say or may infer from events.

She has no intention of raising a grievance for the reasons already given - that she wishes to be able to move on and not draw out the stress of being caught up in endless iterations of "formal procedure". There are however many aspects worrying behaviour here for which it may benefit other employees for this matter to have a recorded conclusion - a record in which senior managers will have given their assessment of the merits of this action having been called for, which would probably not be the case if such cases are simply left "hanging." 

If many of the behaviours leading up to this point had been recorded and placed on file then quite simply my partner would not be in this situation. That is however the past and our concerns are now about resolving the present.

Savvy_Sue

Zaxb said:

lincroft1710 said:

You say

"She is rightly proud of the work she has done over that time and leaving under such a cloud is not how she would want to be remembered"


Peoples' memories can be very short regarding coworkers who have left and the actual work done could be forgotten or even archived. Your partner should not worry about this.

I do appreciate that, yes. The other side of that coin however is that she is rightly proud and it does matter to her. If you had dedicated 25 years of your life to doing something and the last thing which happened was an open question mark on your ability to do your job then I can't imagine that it would be a particularly satisfactory situation for you either. This was practically her entire working career, not just a temporary or short term job in a long CV.

It is quite simple to simply tell someone that they should not worry about this, and please believe me I have spent a lot of time over the past year telling her variations on just that, including that she should try not to worry about things over which she has no control - especially on long sleepless Sunday nights - but some people are natural worriers. It does matter to them what others say or may infer from events.

She has no intention of raising a grievance for the reasons already given - that she wishes to be able to move on and not draw out the stress of being caught up in endless iterations of "formal procedure". There are however many aspects worrying behaviour here for which it may benefit other employees for this matter to have a recorded conclusion - a record in which senior managers will have given their assessment of the merits of this action having been called for, which would probably not be the case if such cases are simply left "hanging." 

If many of the behaviours leading up to this point had been recorded and placed on file then quite simply my partner would not be in this situation. That is however the past and our concerns are now about resolving the present.

The bit I've bolded: that may all well be true, but if your wife is unable to push through with a grievance, I don't see any way of that happening. I've already said that I do not think your wife can obtain the closure she desires without pursuing a grievance. That may not be the best course of action for her, but I can't see any other way: there's no incentive for the employer to do anything!

Have you considered looking for some independent counselling for her? 

Undervalued

Savvy_Sue said:

Zaxb said:

lincroft1710 said:

You say

"She is rightly proud of the work she has done over that time and leaving under such a cloud is not how she would want to be remembered"


Peoples' memories can be very short regarding coworkers who have left and the actual work done could be forgotten or even archived. Your partner should not worry about this.

I do appreciate that, yes. The other side of that coin however is that she is rightly proud and it does matter to her. If you had dedicated 25 years of your life to doing something and the last thing which happened was an open question mark on your ability to do your job then I can't imagine that it would be a particularly satisfactory situation for you either. This was practically her entire working career, not just a temporary or short term job in a long CV.

It is quite simple to simply tell someone that they should not worry about this, and please believe me I have spent a lot of time over the past year telling her variations on just that, including that she should try not to worry about things over which she has no control - especially on long sleepless Sunday nights - but some people are natural worriers. It does matter to them what others say or may infer from events.

She has no intention of raising a grievance for the reasons already given - that she wishes to be able to move on and not draw out the stress of being caught up in endless iterations of "formal procedure". There are however many aspects worrying behaviour here for which it may benefit other employees for this matter to have a recorded conclusion - a record in which senior managers will have given their assessment of the merits of this action having been called for, which would probably not be the case if such cases are simply left "hanging." 

If many of the behaviours leading up to this point had been recorded and placed on file then quite simply my partner would not be in this situation. That is however the past and our concerns are now about resolving the present.

The bit I've bolded: that may all well be true, but if your wife is unable to push through with a grievance, I don't see any way of that happening. I've already said that I do not think your wife can obtain the closure she desires without pursuing a grievance. That may not be the best course of action for her, but I can't see any other way: there's no incentive for the employer to do anything!

Have you considered looking for some independent counselling for her? 

And probably not even then. If we are honest, very few formal employment grievances lead to a full satisfactory outcome for the aggrieved person. 

Zaxb

Savvy_Sue said:

I've already said that I do not think your wife can obtain the closure she desires without pursuing a grievance. That may not be the best course of action for her, but I can't see any other way: there's no incentive for the employer to do anything!

Have you considered looking for some independent counselling for her? 

Sadly, I feel you are probably right regarding the grievance and employer POV. As you can probably tell I am very annoyed with many aspects of this and have long suggested the need to take such action (there is a large pile of unsent letters) as I did predict where this would eventually lead us. But it is my partner's job, not mine, and I have always been mindful that above all else it is her wishes which I must respect. And I also agree with her that as clean a break as possible is the right way forward for her and us.

Counselling may become an option, but removing ongoing causes for stress is now the priority. It probably hasn't helped that even before the bereavements the supervisor was (IMO) trying to gaslight her by signposting her to an employee assist programme which included counselling. Which touches upon the unfortunate lack of record reflecting her side of events. On paper the supervisor has been nothing but helpful, in reality they have been undermining her autonomy and steering her towards lowered self-confidence and esteem - telling her in private that she was effectively useless, didn't deserve her job title, that no one liked her, that she didn't want to end up like a colleague (who sadly died by suicide), and that taking long term absence would give her full pay for six months without any questions. All of which she battled through, and possibly would still be battling through if other external life events hadn't undermined her stoicism and ability to keep a blinkered focus on her job.

Resignation may not be the "right" answer, but it is the only one which hastens a hoped for reduction of stress.

Many thanks to all who have added their thoughts.

elsien

There is nothing gaslighting about a signposting someone towards an employee assistance program. It is quite a responsible thing for an employer to do. 

Zaxb

elsien said:

There is nothing gaslighting about a signposting someone towards an employee assistance program. It is quite a responsible thing for an employer to do. 

It absolutely is a responsible thing to do, if it is genuinely meant and if the employee has either displayed signs of perhaps needing support, perhaps has been taking time off work, or has intimated that they feel they might need support.

As you say, on paper it does seem a responsible thing to do.

What may be less responsible is what is said rather than written. The things which do not appear "on paper."

It is remarkably easy for bullying or coercive behaviour to be made to seem responsible to those not involved.

However, with mixed emotions, that will now be an issue for the employer and not for us.

Purplelady65

elsien said:

There is nothing gaslighting about a signposting someone towards an employee assistance program. It is quite a responsible thing for an employer to do. 

It depends on the context and the relationships. The manager could say they are being supportive by suggesting it. The individual may feel the manager is suggesting they are not coping and need help and start to sow seeds of doubt and affect their confidence.

Purplelady65

I am very sorry to hear what has happened to your partner. It sounds a very stressful situation. I can understand your partner wanting this all resolved before she resigns after 25 years at the organisation. As she works for a public sector organisation I’m surprised that what seems to be a fairly minor breach of policy has turned into a management investigation. If she was smoking and not even on the employer’s premises then it does seem very heavy handed to invoke an investigation. 

Unfortunately in the public sector investigations do take a long time mainly due to managers’ availability to investigate and the workload in HR departments to support. However this appears to be a simple investigation with only one witness. If the investigation was concluded in November then there don’t appear to be any valid reasons for not telling your partner the outcome. Your partner could take out a grievance but if she really doesn’t want to then she could write to the HR director outlining her concerns and providing a timeline of events. The organisation has a duty of care to her and this investigation hanging over her is affecting her health. Alternatively you could write to the HR director (with your partner’s permission) outlining her concerns, the timeline and also your concerns about the impact of all this on her health. Alternatively you or her could write to the Chief Executive. People do do this when they have become totally frustrated with a process and it usually results in a quick response. 

Zaxb

Purplelady65 said:

I am very sorry to hear what has happened to your partner. It sounds a very stressful situation. I can understand your partner wanting this all resolved before she resigns after 25 years at the organisation. As she works for a public sector organisation I’m surprised that what seems to be a fairly minor breach of policy has turned into a management investigation. If she was smoking and not even on the employer’s premises then it does seem very heavy handed to invoke an investigation. 

Unfortunately in the public sector investigations do take a long time mainly due to managers’ availability to investigate and the workload in HR departments to support. 

Thank you for your support and advice.

The wait has been very unhelpful, which is why she has taken the decision to take back control of the situation and leave despite it still being unresolved. Resignation letter to ask that they take this to a formal conclusion and giving willingness to cooperate in any further part of process.

Letter goes in tomorrow