HMRC and eBay. Anyone Else Think The Thresholds Are A Bit Low? 30 Items A Year Is NOT a Lot

fallen121

I can understand the financial thresholds. I don't have a problem with that and it ties in with the £1k trading allowance. I completely understand they want to catch Bodyshop at Home and we've all bought mobile phone cables from that place in Manchester that claims to be a private seller but has 2,000 identical auctions for phone cases and protective glass screens. Clearly NOT an attic clearout, that.

I've just sold 3 kids paperbacks for £2.50 on Vinted and a couple of days before that a cookery book for a quid. And before that a skirt for a quid. If I keep this up I'll be well over 30 items and if I carry on selling at this rate I'll have made a massive £45 from my old tat. My question is - what EXACTLY are they going to be doing with all this data? Ok I'm a crap cook with a penchant for Anne of Green Gables and a dodgy taste in fashion. But the Government need to know this WHY? Are they profiling me?

It just seems a flimsy excuse to collect data on what Google claims are 7 million or so UK private sellers on eBay alone (no idea how accurate this figure is). And taking on a massive 24 people to supposedly "comb through" data from eBay, Etsy, Wayfair, Vinted, Airbnb, Uber and others I haven't even counted. Let's say even 5 percent are identified as "potentially trading". Sending out the letters alone will cost millions. Storing the data on servers will cost millions. Writing an AI program to sift through it all smacks of the Horizon debacle as presumably AI will probably identify a large proportion of old grannies selling off their old George and Mildred DVDs as "traders" and frighten them with letters even more threatening than TV Licensing.

Just seems an excuse to spy on us for the sake of it, as everyone providing their National Insurance numbers then neatly ties us to our passport, Bank account, driving licence and NHS data and hey ho we've sleepwalked into National Identity Cards without even trying.

eBay lets private sellers list up to 100 items a month for free. So a threshold of 300 I could understand. But 30 items? It seems ridiculously low. They're basically reporting everyone who isn't just on eBay for the thrill of picking up a rare copy of Delilah Sampson's elusive single, "Don't Stick Stickers on my Paper Knickers" for 50p.

PS if you have a copy of said vinyl - I've been searching for it for years!

jon81uk

They won't look at everyone, even if you do sell more than 30 items, unless there is something that causes a red flag it probably will never be reviewed by a human.

SimonFF

What will happen now, is that they are going to sell in joblots.

soolin

SimonFF said:

What will happen now, is that they are going to sell in joblots.

As long as the entire income from all self employed income is less than £1000 then it wouldn’t be declared, but if self employed people are trying to avoid being caught by selling in job lots then it makes no difference, as their business is doing incredibly badly if they don’t reach the £1000 limit.

DullGreyGuy

30 sales is inline with the EU and their DAC7/PStTG law which came in last year. 

Either they used the same consultants that just resold the previous work, they were lazy and assume the EU must have a rational or there is a reason why 30 is about the right number and hence why two independent governments have come to the same conclusion. 

RFW

DullGreyGuy said:

30 sales is inline with the EU and their DAC7/PStTG law which came in last year. 

Either they used the same consultants that just resold the previous work, they were lazy and assume the EU must have a rational or there is a reason why 30 is about the right number and hence why two independent governments have come to the same conclusion. 

It is the same. It's from the OECD, presumably as it's an international policy it makes it easier if everyone functions at the same level. The threshold figure is even in Euros, so they report at 2000 Euros or 30 items, whichever comes first.

Minnibix

Hi I know that this is probably a stupid question if you sell 28 items Total Value £900.00 on Vinted which is under the 30 item limit,10 items on Etsy at a value of £100.00 - under the limit  and 11 items at a value of £600 on Ebay as I am under the limit of 30 items and £1000 on these sites will these sites not send my details to HMRC ? 

Yes I do have a weird brain (must have too much time on my hands) and no I don't sell on Vinted (might as well give it away) or Etsy (not clever or talented enough to make my own stuff) but it just popped into my brain

RFW

Minnibix said:

Hi I know that this is probably a stupid question if you sell 28 items Total Value £900.00 on Vinted which is under the 30 item limit,10 items on Etsy at a value of £100.00 - under the limit  and 11 items at a value of £600 on Ebay as I am under the limit of 30 items and £1000 on these sites will these sites not send my details to HMRC ? 

Yes I do have a weird brain (must have too much time on my hands) and no I don't sell on Vinted (might as well give it away) or Etsy (not clever or talented enough to make my own stuff) but it just popped into my brain

It's not £1000, that's the level above which, as a trader, you declare for tax purposes.
The reporting figure is the equivalent of 2000Euros. Etsy, Vinted and Ebay will have no idea how much you are selling on other sites.
Each site is reporting more than 30 items of 2000Euros of sales on their site.
If you are a trader and trading more than £1000 of cumulative revenue on any sites, in person or whatever you should be declaring to HMRC, there is no new rule for that. The amount of items for that has no relevance.

Minnibix

Hi I am not a trader and as it says in my question I do not sell on Vinted or Etsy or any other site but I do sell some of my things on Ebay. I should have been clearer and said it was a hypothetical question. 
 I wondered how this information would be gathered if some one is trading and sells a few items upto but not over the 30 on each  Etsy, Ebay, Vinted, Splock, Facebook, Car Boot Sale, and the other sites I cant think of now would they be flying under the radar. 

I really am just curious please do not answer if you are offended by my question

soolin

Minnibix said:

Hi I am not a trader and as it says in my question I do not sell on Vinted or Etsy or any other site but I do sell some of my things on Ebay. I should have been clearer and said it was a hypothetical question. 
 I wondered how this information would be gathered if some one is trading and sells a few items upto but not over the 30 on each  Etsy, Ebay, Vinted, Splock, Facebook, Car Boot Sale, and the other sites I cant think of now would they be flying under the radar. 

I really am just curious please do not answer if you are offended by my question

RFWs response was accurate. Each site complies with the regulations for their sellers and would not know what other sites have declared.

if you have a read through this thread and the many others there are several posts explaining how this works. 

RFW

Minnibix said:

Hi I am not a trader and as it says in my question I do not sell on Vinted or Etsy or any other site but I do sell some of my things on Ebay. I should have been clearer and said it was a hypothetical question. 
 I wondered how this information would be gathered if some one is trading and sells a few items upto but not over the 30 on each  Etsy, Ebay, Vinted, Splock, Facebook, Car Boot Sale, and the other sites I cant think of now would they be flying under the radar. 

I really am just curious please do not answer if you are offended by my question

As I said earlier it's fairly clear.

Any selling platform has to send details of 30 sales or the equivalent of 2000Euros in sales, whichever is arrived at sooner. If your hypothetical seller was selling across platforms to mask that they were turning over substantial sums then the chances are high that they are trading so need to be reporting cumulative sales over £1000.
If they aren't trading then I don't know why they would be trying to "fly under the radar", they can take any amount anywhere without having to declare anything to HMRC. HMRC aren't interested in sellers who aren't traders, they never have been and I doubt they ever will be.