Scottish Power & Weathercall query.

eric4395

I have electric storage heaters, Scottish Power is my provider.
I have been monitoring my useage over the last 3 months
I have 2 meters the normal day one which is pretty consistent i use between 5 -7   kwh per 24 hr period
The meter which affects my heating / hot water and is worked by weathercall and is  meant to come on between 23:00 and 07:30.
However i notice it can come on as early as 20:00 in the evening thus the amount of units i use are condiderably more then normal.
I would say normal as being between 18-25 units 
Recently it is now as much as 35 units per 24 hr period
I dont change the  settings on my storage heater  and the shower is used twice a day every day.
Weathercall obviously may send out more heat if temps are forecast as being lower but i have no conrol over this and thus no real control over my electric bills.
I contacted Scottish power who say they cant help and get in touch with SP energy networks who supply the  amount of heating sent out. 
I have emailed them but never received any reply so no further forward.
Has anyone else been in this situation or have any further advice. Thanks

Scot_39

Time changing - sounds like the as designed behaviour.

See generic SP guide to special electric heating tariffs.

They offer two Weathercall plans according to generic guide -

https://www.scottishpower.co.uk/energy-efficiency/energy-efficiency-toolkit/electric-heating

The weathercall tariffs are specifically designed such that RTS radio singnals currently allows SP to adapt charge windows for heating to the predicted weather conditions - and so provide a longer charge window on coldest days.

Otherwise the heaters in some homes might not cope with say for instance current sub zero days / nights in the north at standard 7 hour charge - leading to "cold" rooms by end of day.

 

RE your energy costs - its very home and temperature setpoint dependent.

I try to keep home to 17 max LR, 15 max other rooms - but creep that upto 16-17 in cold snaps to - and prop open loft hatch - I had loft pipes - not tank - but pipes feeding it and shower - freeze 5-6 years ago - so unwilling to risk again. 

On a mild winter day - it takes maybe 15kWh total - to keep my home bearable but low cf many.

Yesterday - with sub zero most of the day (was -5 according to car - when came back from supermarket yesterday evening) - more like 30kWh total, the slightly warmer day before - 25kWh.

My living room had dipped to 15C - a little chilly to sit in - by lunchtime - just before 1pm charge window opened (I'm on legacy E10 tariff - comes with 3 off peak periods per day) tommorrow night forecast to be even colder - so turned my heater input settings up again today - to allow it to cope with coldest night yet to come.

But will drop settings again ahead of temps swinging back positive day and night cFri here. 

Heating costs will always reflect external temperatures.

ArbitraryRandom

Apologies but I'm unclear what your actual problem is. 

The heating is coming on for longer - because it automatically compensates for the weather and we're experiencing a cold snap - and because it's on for longer/the weather outside is colder it's using more energy per day... 

I guess the key question is if your property is reaching and maintaining the desired temperature during the day - or is the issue the storage heaters are storing too much heat for your needs with the extended timings and you would be happy for your house to be cooler? 

eric4395

ArbitraryRandom said:

Apologies but I'm unclear what your actual problem is. 

The heating is coming on for longer - because it automatically compensates for the weather and we're experiencing a cold snap - and because it's on for longer/the weather outside is colder it's using more energy per day... 

I guess the key question is if your property is reaching and maintaining the desired temperature during the day - or is the issue the storage heaters are storing too much heat for your needs with the extended timings and you would be happy for your house to be cooler? 

The problem is it's so random what Weathercall send no matter what the temperature is outside. I can use 18 - 30 units over a 24 HR period when the temperatures are much the same everyday. I don't adjust the settings on my storage heater and whether they send 18 or 30 units the temp in the house is much the same everyday( just warm enough) so I wonder what benefit I actually get out that extra 12+ units sent frequently. There is only an input & output dial on the storage heaters setting 1 to 6, I set the input at 3 and never touch the output (set at 0) as I never notice any difference anyway. 
The heaters are fairly new and in working order.

Scot_39

They dont send a number of units.

They change the amount of time power is active in the circuits feeding off peak heating - like night storage heaters and hot water immersion.

On my NSH the input dial - is simply a thermostat setting - controlling the core brick temperature.  And that heat will then disapate - in my case - to give very uneven room temperatures - day to day - if outside weather changes.

And the fact your consumption varies - suggests the heaters are having to significantly vary output to maintain you room temperatures.

If your room temperatures are stable - at your fixed input - the system is arguably working as designed.

But I am curious that you see no correlation with external factors - not just temperature but wind (think windchill and increased drafts) and sunny / grey weather (a south facing room is normally much warmer than a north facing room - solar gain matters).

As I said above - the system is AFAIK designed to allow heaters that could be near their limits - to charge for longer - to heat the property to a given temperature.  If you only heat to 18 they might not be close - if het to 21 - they could be - as losses would be that bit higher.

QrizB

eric4395 said:

I don't adjust the settings on my storage heater and whether they send 18 or 30 units the temp in the house is much the same everyday( just warm enough)

Most storage heater owners (and I was one once) will tell you to adjust the input setting to reflect the next day's weather forecast.

The exception is with the recently-introduced smart storage heaters which will try to guess how much heat input you need based on various things.

eric4395

QrizB said:

eric4395 said:

I don't adjust the settings on my storage heater and whether they send 18 or 30 units the temp in the house is much the same everyday( just warm enough)

Most storage heater owners (and I was one once) will tell you to adjust the input setting to reflect the next day's weather forecast.

The exception is with the recently-introduced smart storage heaters which will try to guess how much heat input you need based on various things.

I would rather they sent the same amount of heat/ usage  through between the hours of 2300  and 0730 no matter what the temp was forecast and allow me to turn the input switch up or down to suit  before 2300 each night at least that way i would have some control over it and control over my  electric bills.

Scot_39

They cannot control the heat usage with an old meter.

They have no idea which generation of heating you have hooked up to their supply.

They merely say - here's another x hours of off peak power if you want or need to consume it.

It doesn't really matter if that power is availble for 7 hours or 10 ours if it raise the temperature to hit your middle input setting - as that will cut the power anyway - just as the thermostat in your HW tank or an automatic kettle does.

The worst case - is if you go from 7 hrs to 10hrs - it might charge - heat - cut off - cool - charge and heat again - but that heat is released to the room - and impacts the temperature.

If your temperature is constant - and you take more power - thats because your losing more heat to the outside - when its colder / windier - and gaining less from the sun when it's cloudier.

I struggle to understand how a constant input setting in winter - this week alone my nightime lows are forecast to change by c10C and my daytime highs by c8C - that means a lot more energy for heating on coldest days - even to a low temperature.

I tweek my input settings regularly - almost daily given this week's large swings could be required on E7 - I can get away with less - as can I fall back on other plug in heaters - which I can run 5 hrs a day - as the same rate as I charge my night storage heaters. I also have the advantage of being able to tweak input 3x per day - if get it really wrong - so can react in finer increments than someone on E7 (at a more expensive tariff though - nothing comes for free)

In one week in Dec - I went from none, to 1 large heater on min input - to 3 on between a 1/4 and a half - the following week - was back at one on minimum and then all off by the end of it.  Older NSH are not set and forget devices.  I look set to partially repeat over this weeks cold spell as well.

Modern ones - not just latest generation can be - as are more regulated more by room / air temperature than simple brick temperature.

But they wont give fixed energy bills either - just consistent temperatures if charged sufficiently - modern ones like Dimplex Quantum or Elnur - automatically adapting that charge.

You could ask SP to fit a standard E7 system - if really want fixed times - depending on which heatwise tariff / meter / home wiring config you are on - it might be a meter cabinet switch - or might not.

But many find E7 struggles to cope with long winter days - so need to overheat them and so rooms at night or run out of heat by evening - a not uncommon complaint.

I'd be tempted to sit tight and see what SP come up with for the planned RTS switch off - before committing to any major decisions on new heating or metering though.