Plan A Did Not Work

CarTeach

Hello--I received a PCN from a parking stay at Asda in Rugby from a stay in December.

I parked my car at 1:15pm and left at 5:30pm. I put my registration in the parking meter and paid £2 and went on my way. I then received a PCN from ParkingEye.

I appealed it on the basis that I had paid a parking charge, only to be informed that the problem wasn't that I hadn't paid, but that I had overstayed.

I went to Asda and spoke to the store manager who told me she had nothing to do with the car park and could not possibly cancel the PCN. She then saw that I had appealed to POPLA and said that she couldn't possibly do anything now as I had appealed.

The signage in my view is NOT clear, and what signage there is in written in very small lettering. I was Christmas shopping and with the cost-of-living crisis and everything else going on, I am angry. I almost want to argue that the machine should have said you owe £70 instead of taking my £2 as I exited the car park!

Should I just pay the fine? Or is there any further recourse at this juncture?

CarTeach

CarTeach said:

Hello--I received a PCN from a parking stay at Asda in Rugby from a stay in December.

I parked my car at 1:15pm and left at 5:30pm. I put my registration in the parking meter and paid £2 and went on my way. I then received a PCN from ParkingEye.

I appealed it on the basis that I had paid a parking charge, only to be informed that the problem wasn't that I hadn't paid, but that I had overstayed.

I went to Asda and spoke to the store manager who told me she had nothing to do with the car park and could not possibly cancel the PCN. She then saw that I had appealed to POPLA and said that she couldn't possibly do anything now as I had appealed.

The signage in my view is NOT clear, and what signage there is in written in very small lettering. I was Christmas shopping and with the cost-of-living crisis and everything else going on, I am angry. I almost want to argue that the machine should have said you owe £70 instead of taking my £2 as I exited the car park!

Should I just pay the fine? Or is there any further recourse at this juncture?

I specifically went to look today at the parking machines I looked at as I was leaving the car park. The signage is not clear AT the parking machines.

CarTeach

Apologies--I should have made it clear that the problem here is that this is apparently a MAX 3 hour car park and I stayed for 4 hours and 20 minutes.

The store manager first said there was nothing she could do, and then she saw paperwork from POPLA and said that she could've maybe helped if I had come to them first but now that I've appealed to POPLA, she definitely could not help.

She then said that ParkingEye and ASDA had nothing to do with one another. When I mentioned the advice given here, the manager became even more condescending.

Coupon-mad

Plan A didn't work because POPLA was wasted time on first.  i.e.  it was tried as Plan B which isn't what we advise.

It's not a fine and you don't pay it!

ParkingEye have never been known to sue over Asda PCNs that I recall.  I suspect they don't want to lose a large contract.

What's that black stuff covering that final term on the sign?  Did you redact something or did they stick a black sticker over part of a term?

Where do they tell people it's max 3 hours?  Looks like they don't.  So it isn't.

CarTeach

Coupon-mad said:

Plan A didn't work because POPLA was wasted time on first.  i.e.  it was tried as Plan B which isn't what we advise.

It's not a fine and you don't pay it!

ParkingEye have never been known to sue over Asda PCNs that I recall.  I suspect they don't want to lose a large contract.

What's that black stuff covering that final term on the sign?  Did you redact something or did they stick a black sticker over part of a term?

Where do they tell people it's max 3 hours?  Looks like they don't.  So it isn't.

I appreciate that I wasted time on POPLA. I understood the initial PCN as saying I hadn't paid the parking tariff or hadn't paid enough. I appealed this directly to ParkingEye and said that I had paid and showed them proof. They then came back and said, yes--we see you've paid, but that's not the problem, the problem is that you overstayed. At this point they said all you can do is appeal through POPLA. I did this and received back a denial of my appeal on account of clear signage.

That's when I went on the internet and found this forum. In the FAQ's and other threads, I read that it's never too late to try Plan A, hence my attempt today.

Whilst there, I took the pictures you see. The black line is not my redaction, but exactly as it was.

There are maybe 2 signs in the whole parking lot that say the maximum parking is 3 hours--one as you drive in, and one that is stood at the pedestrian exit, but not facing the person leaving the car park, rather it's facing the person coming back to the car park (will upload shortly).

So contrary to what the store manager said, the signs are not everywhere, and what signage there is has small lettering that is not easily readable as you drive in. I specifically went to the parking machine before I exited the car park and asked an attendant about the rules. At no point did they say 'maximum 3 hours'. Only that if I stay longer than 2 hours, I should make sure to pay as I leave, which I did.

And it is NOT clear by the machines that there is time maximum.

My question is: should I bother writing to my MP and to the CEO of ASDA? It really does feel like entrapment! 

CarTeach

This is the sign that is around the corner from the machine (on the wall that is perpendicular to the wall the tariff machine is against, but facing away--I didn't even know the sign was there until today.

There is a sign of similar size as you drive in but at a distance, I don't see how anyone could read it as they are coming in to the car park.

Coupon-mad

Yes do those complaints as it might get the monkey off your back.

NOT THAT YOU WILL PAY.  DO NOT PANIC AND PAY THIS AT ALL.

Use those photos as evidence in your two complaints, because NOTHING at the machine says that £2 only covers 3 hours and ParkingEye have obliterated half the term about paying £2, begging the questions:

 what does that term say in full?

and

- why doesn't it state £2 is only for one extra hour?  If they went to the 'trouble' of applying a sticker why not apply a sticker that says '3 hours total stay' or 'your £2 allows you one extra agreed hour above the first 2 hours free'.

Ask your MP to complain on your behalf to:

ParkingEye

Asda CEO

The BPA

and consider showing this evidence to a local newspaper journalist (bad publicity very often causes PE to cancel).

Kim_13

I would do both. When the queues are as they are in the lead up to Christmas, everyone has to get through the checkouts with extra, and you’re naturally taking longer browsing for food, drinks and gifts, it isn’t that easy to get out within the 3 hour limit (whether properly signed or not.) I say this as someone who got out with 5 minutes to go on 21st December (a different Asda though.)

If you or anyone with you has a blue badge, this should also be mentioned.

CarTeach

My thanks to Coupon-mad and Kim_13 for their responses!

Just to be clear, I will write to my MP as well as respond to the POPLA notice (they've given me 7 days)--is that right?

Despite what the store manager said, I really didn't think the signage was clear and I'm relieved to find others who agree with me!

I would also like to thank Coupon-mad for giving me the courage not to pay! The Asda store manager was not helpful nor pleasant this morning, and that had really shaken my confidence.

Coupon-mad

In their evidence pack to POPLA did ParkingEye show pics of what that term used to say?   Did they show any pics of those black stickers?

CarTeach

This is the sign in the evidence pack. They also include a number of signs and the sign locations, but no pictures of the sign with the redaction.