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Twice in one week. Fuming

brab888
brab888 Posts: 41
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21 minutes over stayed to a help a relative having a mental health crisis. PCN attached but I have received two as i'

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m guessing the lease hire have just updated the parking wombles with information about the keeper, can I still fight this as per the thread and within two weeks of the latest issue? 

- Thought I mightve been in luck as the first one is out of date but have sent another one with the same reference number. 
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  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 58,012
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    edited 15 January at 9:41AM
    You have left your VRM showing on one of the images.

    Plan A is a complain to the landowner and your MP.

    Appeal using one of the edna basher letters you will find in the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES. There are three but one is for fleet manager, so the one you want will be one of the other two.

    The important thing is not to reveal the driver's identity and only respond as hirer/lessee which makes you the keeper as defined by the PoFA.



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  • troublemaker22
    troublemaker22 Posts: 430
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    It’s a leased car. The first PCN was technically a “notice to keeper”. The second PCN (as it says in the back under the heading PROTECTION OF FREEDOMS ACT) purports to be a “notice to hirer” under that Act.  But it is not an effective notice to hirer unless the documents specified under that heading were enclosed with the PCN. 

    If they were not enclosed you have an easy win provided you don’t reveal who was driving. To enable us to advise properly please tell us exactly what documents were enclosed with the second PCN (notice to hirer). 

    While you await our advice, do not contact Parkjngeye!  
  • troublemaker22
    troublemaker22 Posts: 430
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    @Fruitcake, it’s a leased car. Let’s find out whether the required documents were enclosed before suggesting how to appeal. There may be a really simple way to win. 
  • brab888
    brab888 Posts: 41
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    Thanks for your helps just going to work out how to edit the first bit/image more. 

    These are the extra two - hopefully still an easy win? :’(
  • So the lease/hire agreement was not enclosed with the PCN you got from Parkingeye.  Perfect.  

    Wait until 6 February and appeal online.  Do not click any boxes or write anything to indicate who was driving. If there’s a drop down menu and “hirer” is not one of the options click “keeper” and add the sentence in square brackets below.  You can omit that sentence if “hirer” or “keeper/hirer (or similar) is available. 

    Appeal exactly as below. Do not write anything about what happened on the day:

    ”I appeal as hirer. I am not obliged to identify the driver and I decline to do so. You are unable to hold me liable as hirer because your purported notice to hirer does not comply with the requirements for a notice to hirer set out in paragraph 14 of Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (‘POFA’) and it is now too late for you to deliver a POFA-compliant notice to hirer.

    in particular (without limitation) your notice was not accompanied by the documents required by POFA paragraph 14(2)(a). 

    I require you to cancel the purported notice to hirer or to issue a POPLA code so that POPLA can order you to cancel it. 

    [As your drop-down menu does not include ‘hirer’ as an option, I selected ‘keeper’ in order to be able to lodge this appeal. Please note that I am appealing as hirer.]

    Please let us know how you get on. 
  • brab888
    brab888 Posts: 41
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    Thanks for your help. Greatly appreciated. 

    Does the third party authorisation Letter not count as enough information for lease hire information?
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,500
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    edited 15 January at 1:26PM
    Nope.

    Look at the POFA Schedule 4 para 14, which you know applies from your reading of the Edna Basher appeal you were first signposted to.  And which is cited in the above bespoke appeal from troublemaker22, who is a solicitor.

    DO NOT accidentally choose driver and DO NOT rush to do it.

    Was that letter actually enclosed by ParkingEye with the NTH?  I doubt it...

    Or posted separately to you by the lease firm (before the NTH arrived with NO enclosures)?
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  • brab888
    brab888 Posts: 41
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    Two different envelopes. One with both parking notices enclosed by parking eye. A different envelope by the lease company for their third party agreement warning. 
  • troublemaker22
    troublemaker22 Posts: 430
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    I’m sorry if my previous advice wasn’t clear. If the envelope from Parkingeye didn’t contain a copy of the lease agreement, they can’t pursue the hirer. By 6 February it will be too late for them to send a new and compliant notice.

    it doesn’t matter what was in the other envelope and anyway it seems that one also didn’t contain a copy of the lease agreement. 

     I hope that’s clear now. 

  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,500
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    Oh it was clear to me!  But the OP had posted as if it matters that the lease firm had written.

    It doesn't matter.  Easy win!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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