Builder arranged for scaffolding to be erected, then went no contact

Hoenir

I'd have intiated action much earlier against the builder and sourced an alternative. 

HillStreetBlues

Aylesbury_Duck said:

HillStreetBlues said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

  I don’t think the £200 margin is any of your business, it’s just the builder’s margin on the deal with the scaffolders.   

Agreed - The builder arranged the scaffolding and you agreed to pay the builder. Just like if he went to the builder's yard to buy materials then added 10% for his time. 

I disagree, what the builder paid (or didn't pay) the scaffold company is a red herring as it's irrelevant.
The OP paid the builder £2.4k and that's what he should claim back.

I agree with the first part of that, but as for the second sentence,  doesn't that mean OP is then on the hook for the scaffolding hire to date?  OP has had the scaffolding in return for their £2400,  they have no loss yet.  They have a future unforseen cost, because the £2400 was supposed to hire the scaffolding for as long as its needed.

I'm not 100% sure what the solution is here, it's a little complicated.

There is wasn't a contract between OP and scaffolding company, so that part isn't the OP's issue.  OP has now agreed to a contract with scaffolding company for £1400 till end of March.
The breakdown will be (not in order)
OP tries to reclaim £2400 from builder (for not doing work that he was contracted to do).
Scaffolding company tries to reclaim £2200 from builder (for not paying the contract for scaffolding).
OP pays both scaffolding company (for 2nd builder use) and  new builder for work that the 1st builder didn't do.

EDIT corrected figures

Aylesbury_Duck

HillStreetBlues said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

HillStreetBlues said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

  I don’t think the £200 margin is any of your business, it’s just the builder’s margin on the deal with the scaffolders.   

Agreed - The builder arranged the scaffolding and you agreed to pay the builder. Just like if he went to the builder's yard to buy materials then added 10% for his time. 

I disagree, what the builder paid (or didn't pay) the scaffold company is a red herring as it's irrelevant.
The OP paid the builder £2.4k and that's what he should claim back.

I agree with the first part of that, but as for the second sentence,  doesn't that mean OP is then on the hook for the scaffolding hire to date?  OP has had the scaffolding in return for their £2400,  they have no loss yet.  They have a future unforseen cost, because the £2400 was supposed to hire the scaffolding for as long as its needed.

I'm not 100% sure what the solution is here, it's a little complicated.

There is wasn't a contract between OP and scaffolding company, so that part isn't the OP's issue.  OP has now agreed to a contract with scaffolding company for £1400 till end of March.
The breakdown will be (not in order)
OP tries to reclaim £1400 from builder (for not doing work that he was contracted to do).
Scaffolding company tries to reclaim £1200 from builder (for not paying the contract for scaffolding).
OP pays both scaffolding company (for 2nd builder use) and  new builder for work that the 1st builder didn't do.

First paragraph, agreed.

Then I'm getting a little lost.  Didn't you originally say "The OP paid the builder £2.4k and that's what he should claim back."?  Now you're suggesting he claims only £1400, presumably for the extra hire duration that should have been covered by the original £2400.

Where does the £1200 the scaffolding company should claim come from?  A typo? Did you mean £2200?  If so, yes, I agree.

Last paragraph, agreed.

Grumpy_chap

LostIt_ToBostik said:

Was given a price of £2400 by the builder for the scaffolding. And he confirmed to me verbally and in text that this scaffolding would remain for as long as required for the fixed fee of £2.4k. 

Scaffolders arrived without warning the first week in October 2023 but they were lovely lads and all in it took 3 days to get the scaffolding up.

For a bit of context, I work in construction and the cost of scaffold is the transportation plus labour to erect and dismantle.
The actual cost of the scaffold components / hire of the same is small in comparison to the cost of having the scaffold.
Therefore, the initial statement by the original builder that the £2.4k covers the cost of the scaffold for as long as it takes is plausible.
There is a need to inspect the scaffold periodically to ensure the assembly remains sound, but the builder may have that capability within their own resources so it is not an externally hired cost from the scaffolders.
It is actually not uncommon, when they are busy, for scaffolders to be slow at returning to dismantle and collect the scaffold once they are notified that it can be struck.  The scaffolders will not want to lose the next job so will prioritise getting that on site as, once on site, the scaffolder is guaranteed the second half of the job to dismantle.

I would also say that £2.4k for a scaffold that took 3 days to erect is a keen price.
It is only half of that to transport to site and erect as the other half is required for dismantle and removal from site.  It broadly takes as long to dismantle a scaffold as to erect it in the first place.
The OP mentioned "lovely lads" so at least two people for three days = 6 labour-days for £1,200.  That is a day-rate of £200 so not excessive.

ArbitraryRandom

HillStreetBlues said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

  I don’t think the £200 margin is any of your business, it’s just the builder’s margin on the deal with the scaffolders.   

Agreed - The builder arranged the scaffolding and you agreed to pay the builder. Just like if he went to the builder's yard to buy materials then added 10% for his time. 

I disagree, what the builder paid (or didn't pay) the scaffold company is a red herring as it's irrelevant.
The OP paid the builder £2.4k and that's what he should claim back.

I would take the starting position this is the same as any other job where the OP has to 'fix' or 'finish' a job contracted and paid for... So the OP has the right to claim the full cost of getting the job completed as initially specified - inc repairing any damage internally caused by the delay... be that more or less than the amount paid to date. 

The point I was making was the OP can't claim back the £200 just because it's more than the builder was supposed to pay the scaffolder - they can claim their costs for getting the job completed, which may or may not include the actual cost of the scaffolding to date (though I agree, if at all possible, the OP should expect the scaffolder's to be paid by the builder). 

HillStreetBlues

Aylesbury_Duck said:

HillStreetBlues said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

HillStreetBlues said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

  I don’t think the £200 margin is any of your business, it’s just the builder’s margin on the deal with the scaffolders.   

Agreed - The builder arranged the scaffolding and you agreed to pay the builder. Just like if he went to the builder's yard to buy materials then added 10% for his time. 

I disagree, what the builder paid (or didn't pay) the scaffold company is a red herring as it's irrelevant.
The OP paid the builder £2.4k and that's what he should claim back.

I agree with the first part of that, but as for the second sentence,  doesn't that mean OP is then on the hook for the scaffolding hire to date?  OP has had the scaffolding in return for their £2400,  they have no loss yet.  They have a future unforseen cost, because the £2400 was supposed to hire the scaffolding for as long as its needed.

I'm not 100% sure what the solution is here, it's a little complicated.

There is wasn't a contract between OP and scaffolding company, so that part isn't the OP's issue.  OP has now agreed to a contract with scaffolding company for £1400 till end of March.
The breakdown will be (not in order)
OP tries to reclaim £1400 from builder (for not doing work that he was contracted to do).
Scaffolding company tries to reclaim £1200 from builder (for not paying the contract for scaffolding).
OP pays both scaffolding company (for 2nd builder use) and  new builder for work that the 1st builder didn't do.

First paragraph, agreed.

Then I'm getting a little lost.  Didn't you originally say "The OP paid the builder £2.4k and that's what he should claim back."?  Now you're suggesting he claims only £1400, presumably for the extra hire duration that should have been covered by the original £2400.

Where does the £1200 the scaffolding company should claim come from?  A typo? Did you mean £2200?  If so, yes, I agree.

Last paragraph, agreed.

Yes, put wrong figures in (now corrected), thanks for highlighting it

HillStreetBlues

ArbitraryRandom said:

HillStreetBlues said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

  I don’t think the £200 margin is any of your business, it’s just the builder’s margin on the deal with the scaffolders.   

Agreed - The builder arranged the scaffolding and you agreed to pay the builder. Just like if he went to the builder's yard to buy materials then added 10% for his time. 

I disagree, what the builder paid (or didn't pay) the scaffold company is a red herring as it's irrelevant.
The OP paid the builder £2.4k and that's what he should claim back.

I would take the starting position this is the same as any other job where the OP has to 'fix' or 'finish' a job contracted and paid for... So the OP has the right to claim the full cost of getting the job completed as initially specified - inc repairing any damage internally caused by the delay... be that more or less than the amount paid to date. 

The point I was making was the OP can't claim back the £200 just because it's more than the builder was supposed to pay the scaffolder - they can claim their costs for getting the job completed, which may or may not include the actual cost of the scaffolding to date (though I agree, if at all possible, the OP should expect the scaffolder's to be paid by the builder). 

There is normally two options 1) claim money back, or 2) claim cost back to finish job minus what's been paid.
As OP has now arrange scaffolding for £1000 less, it more likely to be cheaper than original cost,  but if not then can go for 2nd option.

sheramber

ArbitraryRandom said:

HillStreetBlues said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

  I don’t think the £200 margin is any of your business, it’s just the builder’s margin on the deal with the scaffolders.   

Agreed - The builder arranged the scaffolding and you agreed to pay the builder. Just like if he went to the builder's yard to buy materials then added 10% for his time. 

I disagree, what the builder paid (or didn't pay) the scaffold company is a red herring as it's irrelevant.
The OP paid the builder £2.4k and that's what he should claim back.

I would take the starting position this is the same as any other job where the OP has to 'fix' or 'finish' a job contracted and paid for... So the OP has the right to claim the full cost of getting the job completed as initially specified - inc repairing any damage internally caused by the delay... be that more or less than the amount paid to date. 

The point I was making was the OP can't claim back the £200 just because it's more than the builder was supposed to pay the scaffolder - they can claim their costs for getting the job completed, which may or may not include the actual cost of the scaffolding to date (though I agree, if at all possible, the OP should expect the scaffolder's to be paid by the builder). 

From what I read
the  OP did not get any quote for the work from the builder so no contract was formed  and nothing paid for the work.

All he has paid for is the scaffolding, which he has received but has not been used,  as no work has been done.

But, it is going to be used going forward,  as the OP has arranged for someone else to do the work using the scaffolding.  The OP is prepared to pay for the cost of retaining the scaffolding to allow the work to go ahead.

ArbitraryRandom

HillStreetBlues said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

HillStreetBlues said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

  I don’t think the £200 margin is any of your business, it’s just the builder’s margin on the deal with the scaffolders.   

Agreed - The builder arranged the scaffolding and you agreed to pay the builder. Just like if he went to the builder's yard to buy materials then added 10% for his time. 

I disagree, what the builder paid (or didn't pay) the scaffold company is a red herring as it's irrelevant.
The OP paid the builder £2.4k and that's what he should claim back.

I would take the starting position this is the same as any other job where the OP has to 'fix' or 'finish' a job contracted and paid for... So the OP has the right to claim the full cost of getting the job completed as initially specified - inc repairing any damage internally caused by the delay... be that more or less than the amount paid to date. 

The point I was making was the OP can't claim back the £200 just because it's more than the builder was supposed to pay the scaffolder - they can claim their costs for getting the job completed, which may or may not include the actual cost of the scaffolding to date (though I agree, if at all possible, the OP should expect the scaffolder's to be paid by the builder). 

There is normally two options 1) claim money back, or 2) claim cost back to finish job minus what's been paid.
As OP has now arrange scaffolding for £1000 less, it more likely to be cheaper than original cost,  but if not then can go for 2nd option.

He's not arranged it for £1000 less...?

The ongoing scaffolding hire is separate and in addition to the use to date (Unless the scaffolding team are charging the OP for putting it up/taking it down - which would be double dipping as they're still wanting the original payment from the builder). 

The issue would be if the scaffolding team insist the OP make the payment for the work completed to date - PLUS the extra for the ongoing works - or they could just remove their scaffolding. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

OP needs to claim £1400 back from the builder.

The £200 mark up isn't anything to do with anything, the £1400 is the loss OP has suffered, if they claimed back £2400 they would effectively have their scaffolding put up and taken down for free. 

It is a bit messy and would be interesting to know what OP agreed exactly with the builder, seems the builder arranged the scaffolding, came out to look at the job after it was up but then didn't quote which, other than being poor, isn't really anything wrong unless something else was agreed. I would have thought normally you'd get a quote for the lot and agree or not rather than risk paying out for scaffolding with no contract for the work itself to be done. 

I guess OP is lucky the builder said via text the £2400 for scaffolding is to cover "for as long as required".