My ex has turned my daughter against me

Joli2022

I wanted to know if you have any advice for a man whose daughter no longer talks to him. She is 12. My ex has poisoned her from about 9 years old against me, and our relationship has been getting worse. I even have proof of her poisoning my daughter against me, it’s awful some of stuff I have read and seen. I don’t want to go down the legal route as I have heard so many negative things about it towards dads.

jlfrs01

There's a long answer to this and a short one based on my own experience. I'll give you the short one - back away and play the long game until she is out from under her mother's skirts. Chances are before then that your ex may well do a 360 because unless you're in your daughter's life she may well find it's difficult to have any life of her own. Nonetheless, if it's really babysitting duties you're wanted for, try to do it on your terms, not her's by either refusing outright, saying you're too busy or insisting on only organising anything directly with your daughter.
Worked for me!

ChooseLife

That's an awful situation to be in and one I can fully relate to as it happened to my husband some years ago with his son. The ex wife tried her best to poison their son against his dad over a couple of years from the age of 10-12.  It was a really tough time. The best thing you can do is keep open contact with your child, be the best dad you can be and NEVER bad mouth their mum in front of them as that stoops to her level. The child will eventually see her for what she is, trust me.  As they get into their teens and become an adult, they start to see things differently and make their own mind up on things. This is exactly what happened with my step-son. He actually moved in with us from the age of 12 as he was so sick of his mum's poison. And he still doesn't have a great relationship with her as she still spouts the same poision all these years later, and he's now 28!!!  It was all beacuse she was jealous that he'd moved on with someone else.  

T.T.D

The courts take a dim view of parental alienation.

The courts are not for mums to abuse no longer, games don’t wash.

Saying that, at 12 your daughter’s voice will play great weight in court assessments and judgements, but alienating games will get stopped.

You both have equal parental rights absent of any court order, you have a legal right to copies of school reports, you have legal right of access to her phone number, Facebook etc mum shouldn’t be blocking you from them and medical records, and so forth.

You should be paying child support, it’s only the right thing to do (I’m a bloke and I have custody of my kids and mum refusing to pay, very hard when that cash could go to school trip or extra money for school dinner or for pocket money for a day out) this takes out any weaponisation of not paying from mum. 

Focus on the child’s needs in discussions with mum don’t engage in arguments, say things to mum like, Hi I would like to see X on the weekend any chance I could pick her up for 10am and drop her home for 10pm?

When asked for what, what are you going to be doing, where are you going?  Just be factual “going to  funfair, spend some time on rides, down at XYZ beach”

Going for a meal, in town, I’ll bring her home around 2

Watch a movie at Vue  for 2 back at 6

If it’s a no then say OK (then walk in the garden and scream for a bit vent it out at but never react).

Offer lifts to school or from school to mum say to mum, hey I’d love to pick up X from school today I’ll drop her right home, she finish at 3? I’ll let school know I’m picking her up and to inform her! 

If it’s a no then say ok don’t engage in an argument.

when the hospital appointments say to mum “does x have any appointments? I’d like to know what’s going on and take her to any or can I meet you guys there so i want to support her. 

If mum refuses just let her carry on. Dont react.
take out the emotion from your interactions just be factual don’t engage in argument. Same with daughter don’t tell her her mum has brain washed her your just reinforcing what her mum is saying to her. 

If you have her number it may seem small but a text every day saying I love you goes a long way. Even if it means you have to step back to the outer periphery of her life until she’s ready to accept you back in. Keeping that line of communication open is vital. 

But do not yourself talk negative about mum to daughter. It’s a no no!

If you do get to a level of contact make it your and her contact leave out any partner you have, it’s been 3 years, it will be weaponised by mum, speak about any partner show photo’s etc but remember kids this age get very very cross parents aren’t together, they don’t like sharing their parent, slow introductions and only allow your partner to meet once she’s asked and good and ready. You need to make time for her away from any partner for the first few months. 

Nothing is stopping you approaching the school, asking for the their online app access to her profile and see how she is doing in school, see her attendance and what trips she got coming up that you help pay for, you won’t miss out on any public assembly. Ask school to send a copy of her reports to your address, if they want proof your her dad as your not down as a contact, go get a copy of her birth certificate, produce your ID proof of address and show them make yourself a point of contact. 

Trust me once daughter realises your a reasonable level headed safe space to be around, she’s going to reject the alienation mum is putting down and take that weapon away from mum when she starts to reject her behaviour.

When you take away weapons like child maintenance, school trip money. Clothing etc and step in and are paying these, it’s takes them out of the alienation.

text every day “I love” and “ I love you good night”. 

Good luck

Exodi

jlfrs01 said:

There's a long answer to this and a short one based on my own experience. I'll give you the short one - back away and play the long game until she is out from under her mother's skirts. Chances are before then that your ex may well do a 360 because unless you're in your daughter's life she may well find it's difficult to have any life of her own. Nonetheless, if it's really babysitting duties you're wanted for, try to do it on your terms, not her's by either refusing outright, saying you're too busy or insisting on only organising anything directly with your daughter.
Worked for me!

I think the two comments below yours are good advice but I'm not too sure about this.

The idea of distancing yourself from them (which is effectively just handing the mum ammo with "see, he doesn't want anything to do with us") in the hope that one day the child will suddenly decide you're actually a stand up guy seems unlikely.

The idea that doing this would also cause the mother to come running after you, pleading for you to come back into the daughters life, also seems just as unlikely. Many parents have no problem with the ex paying child support and having no part in the child's life, especially when a new partner becomes involved.

At first I thought your saying the ex would do a '360' was a mistake (as doing a 360 would mean you're still heading in the same direction)... but in this context, it's probably true - or if anything, make the ex would double down on her alienation if you responded with absence.

You say it worked for you, and mentioned there was a long story, so I suspect this includes a bit about remaining in regular contact...

T.T.D

What about Mediation? Would you be able to get mum to do mediation if you pay? 

I reiterate that ignoring mum would give ammo to sling your daughters way, I think it would be best to be ignore rants and abuse and just stick to the facts (my ex hates it when I simply won’t engage with her trying to create drama). I answer important things about the children and I give her important news etc, but my life my partner and rants about what I do and do as a parent and how I parent. Let them go I ignore it all and it’s effective. 

 There’s no book on good parenting as it’s what you make it, so make it good exciting and be a good influence and participant in her life.

But at 12 a heavy weight is placed on the child’s requests (not so much wants) and needs.
if you force contact, mum breaches it, and you go to court for breach of that order and get it enforced then go all the way with police and cafcass, all she will be told and see will be FORCE, making her distance herself from you further mum will use court proceedings and tell her everything, illegal as it is it’s going to happen if she’s alienating her from you.

Perhaps build a relationship with your daughter directly speak over zoom, messenger video, WhatsApp call or video, take it step by step, it’s very important not to bite to mum and her creation of drama it takes a lot of energy to do it and to bite the lip bit it can be done. 

BungalowBel

My husband's mum did the same and he didn't see his dad for years.

In fact it wasn't until he was in his 20s that he started to realise it wasn't all his dad's fault and wanted to resume a relationship with him - but by that time his dad had unfortunately died.  So, too late. 

I agree with what someone said above.  Just send your daughter little messages every day 'I love you'  'I'm thinking of you ', funny photos etc etc.   Also  send her gifts on birthday and Christmas and in between too.  Let her know you haven't forgotten her.  Never, ever, say anything bad about her mum.  Eventually, hopefully, she will come round and start talking to you again.  She probably is very conflicted at the moment - not wanting to be disloyal to her mum.  Don't give up.

elsien

I’m just going to give a slightly different perspective here and say that I don’t see my father because he’s an !!!!!!. Nothing to do with parental alienation, and everything to do with being messed around so much that I can’t be doing with it. 

Not saying, that’s the case here, but it does happen and it’s not always down to the other parent.

Exodi

elsien said:

I’m just going to give a slightly different perspective here and say that I don’t see my father because he’s an !!!!!!. Nothing to do with parental alienation, and everything to do with being messed around so much that I can’t be doing with it. 

Not saying, that’s the case here, but it does happen and it’s not always down to the other parent.

Of course fathers can genuinely be bad. I don't really know my father either.

I know my mother didn't have much luck receiving child support over my childhood, she would tell me that he'd quit jobs whenever the CMS located him. Of course I remained open-minded that I was only hearing one side of the story.

He would post me a £20 cheque for my birthday and I remember one year for my 12th or 13th birthday or something, he messaged me wishing me a Happy Birthday and asking if I had received the cheque. For the first time I hadn't and I told him it hadn't been delivered to which he asked if I had a bank account, and fortunately I did have a child's bank account so I sent it to him and thanked him.

He then told me that he wouldn't transfer the £20 for at least a few days or so as he had to go to the bank and cancel the cheque. If I remember right, he said there was a charge to do this and he would deduct it from the amount he would transfer. I suggested that he didn't need to cancel the cheque and that if it arrived late I'd just destroy it, he just countered this by saying it's better to be safe than sorry. 

I was disappointed because I would usually buy myself something from the shops with the birthday money, and kids aren't renowned for patience. My mother was understandably disappointed because he was taking issue with the only £20 he would pay towards me in a year. The undertone of all of this was also that he did not trust I would cash it if I received it later. Despite my mum always encouraging a relationship with my dad, I decided to message him and told him not to worry sending money for my birthday anymore. He was quite keen with this suggestion.

In my scenario my mother didn't need to alienate me as he did it on his own.

One thing I would say though, is regardless of who the deadbeat parent is - you should always avoid bad-mouthing the other parent to your child. Kids aren't stupid, if dads cancel visits at the last minute or forget birthdays, the kids will notice. It doesn't require the mum whispering in the child's ear while they sleep that their dad doesn't love them.

squirrelchops2

I just wanted to say I am sorry you feel that way about the court process and if this helps at all, I am a serving Magistrate in the family courts and the old belief that Dad's come off worse is simply not true. The last hearing I sat on we gave father contact with his children despite Mother stating she didn't agree. 
At the end of the day our sole focus is on the children's needs but unfortunately some parents are unable to see this.

swingaloo

Its not true that going through the courts makes things better for the parent wanting contact. It's also sadly, not true that the child will come round as they get older and become wise to the parent alienating the other.

Despite having  a terrific relationship with his son for years the mum started to play games as soon as hubby met me.  For the first couple of years everything was fine, son would stay with dad alternate weekends and hubby and I had a reasonable relationship with her as well but then her new relationship failed and the trouble started when he told his ex we were moving in together.

My husbands ex played mind games with his son and used every trick in the book to deny access. he finally went through the court and was granted regular access. In reality it was a complete waste of time.  She stood up in court and said to the judge 'Well you can give him access but if xxxx does not want to see him he will not have to'. Cafcass had done a report which stated that son was desperate to see dad. The judge replied ' It is your duty to ensure he does see dad and you should encourage the access'.

Made no difference at all. She moved 240 miles away which meant a 3.5 hour journey each way but on many occasions he would drive there to be told that son had gone out with friends/gone to a party/was too ill to go out etc, etc. 
 Finally at age 15 son was totally brainwashed and when being picked up by dad one day came out of the house and said to dad 'I never want to see you again because of what you have done to me and mum' turned around and went back in the house. Ex would not answer door to let him speak to son.

He sent cards, letters and presents which were all returned unopened.  At the age of 19 son contacted hubby on a facebook  message saying ' You have never cared about me, never paid a penny maintenance to mum for me, have no interest in me and clearly dont want to know me so I never want to hear from you again'. None of that was true and it destroyed hubby. 
Mum and son have moved from the address he knew of and mobile numbers have been changed. The sons facebook was only opened to send the message and has been shut down so hubby has no way to contact his son at all and his son believes dad never cared.  Son is now 28 and hubby has no idea where he is.

Mum has done a complete hatchet job and been very successful.