Forcing prepayment meters to restart

Qyburn

MeteredOut said:

Anyway, as I'm too lazy to read the full details QrizB posted above, I thought I'd ask our (not so) trusted friend ChatGPT. Would be interested where it got it right

That’s a very interesting question. Based on the web page and its linked content, as well as some additional research I did using a tool that can search the web, it seems that the supplier cannot sell an unrecoverable debt to a debt collection agency if they have been recompensed for that unrecoverable debt via the new proposed addition to the standing charge. This is because:

• The new proposed addition to the standing charge is a form of bad debt relief, which is a VAT relief scheme that allows suppliers to claim back the VAT they paid on supplies that have not been paid for by the customer1.
• 
  

Can you clarify that first one? I didn't realise that the proposed £16 was anything to do with VAT. The linked article, in spite of the description in the link, makes no reference to standing charge.

Link description "The new proposed addition to the standing charge is a form of bad debt relief, which is a VAT relief scheme that allows suppliers to claim back the VAT they paid on supplies that have not been paid for by the customer"

Actual page linked to "VBDR1900 - Introduction: Exclusions from relief"

SAC2334

Interesting to see Jeremy Hunt chatting to Martin Lewis on TV last night saying hes going to remove any prepayment meter add ons .I presume that means on higher standing charges as well as unit costs .
 Smart prepayment must be the quickest and easiest money transfers paying for energy in advance with very small charges in between occupier and supplier .Maybe they should be on even lower unit rates than credit meters .

MattMattMattUK

SAC2334 said:

Interesting to see Jeremy Hunt chatting to Martin Lewis on TV last night saying hes going to remove any prepayment meter add ons .I presume that means on higher standing charges as well as unit costs .
Smart prepayment must be the quickest and easiest money transfers paying for energy in advance with very small charges in between occupier and supplier .Maybe they should be on even lower unit rates than credit meters .

It depends how the customer pays the supplier, even via smart. If they top up via Direct Debit then it is the cheapest to operate, lowest costs, no bad debt. If they top up via card then it drops below normal Direct Debit straight away due to card processing fees, even when accounting for bad debt. If they use a physical card to top up their smart meter (there is a physical card, which can be topped up at PayPoint, which goes onto the smart meter) then it is the most expensive method for the supplier by some way. 

As far as the suppliers are concerned the ideal would be everyone on prepayment and topping up via Direct Debit with a smart meter, lowest cost, very minimal bad debt, easy to operate. 

MeteredOut

Qyburn said:

MeteredOut said:

Anyway, as I'm too lazy to read the full details QrizB posted above, I thought I'd ask our (not so) trusted friend ChatGPT. Would be interested where it got it right

That’s a very interesting question. Based on the web page and its linked content, as well as some additional research I did using a tool that can search the web, it seems that the supplier cannot sell an unrecoverable debt to a debt collection agency if they have been recompensed for that unrecoverable debt via the new proposed addition to the standing charge. This is because:

• The new proposed addition to the standing charge is a form of bad debt relief, which is a VAT relief scheme that allows suppliers to claim back the VAT they paid on supplies that have not been paid for by the customer1.
• 
  

Can you clarify that first one? I didn't realise that the proposed £16 was anything to do with VAT. The linked article, in spite of the description in the link, makes no reference to standing charge.

Link description "The new proposed addition to the standing charge is a form of bad debt relief, which is a VAT relief scheme that allows suppliers to claim back the VAT they paid on supplies that have not been paid for by the customer"

Actual page linked to "VBDR1900 - Introduction: Exclusions from relief"

I think it was just ChatGPT doing it's 2+2=5 thing. I suspect its "thinking" is that if the supplier did sell the debt, but were also recompensed via the proposed addition to the standing charge, that it would somehow be keeping VAT it had collected.

Qyburn

I'm not sure if it's even strictly debt relief. Surely an increase in the price cap is just allowing the suppliers to charge more, whether it ends up on the unit rate or on the s/c. They're not receiving Government money to compensate for unrecoverable debt, just being allowed to make a little more off those who do pay their bills. 

SAC2334

MattMattMattUK said:

SAC2334 said:

Interesting to see Jeremy Hunt chatting to Martin Lewis on TV last night saying hes going to remove any prepayment meter add ons .I presume that means on higher standing charges as well as unit costs .
Smart prepayment must be the quickest and easiest money transfers paying for energy in advance with very small charges in between occupier and supplier .Maybe they should be on even lower unit rates than credit meters .

It depends how the customer pays the supplier, even via smart. If they top up via Direct Debit then it is the cheapest to operate, lowest costs, no bad debt. If they top up via card then it drops below normal Direct Debit straight away due to card processing fees, even when accounting for bad debt. If they use a physical card to top up their smart meter (there is a physical card, which can be topped up at PayPoint, which goes onto the smart meter) then it is the most expensive method for the supplier by some way. 

As far as the suppliers are concerned the ideal would be everyone on prepayment and topping up via Direct Debit with a smart meter, lowest cost, very minimal bad debt, easy to operate. 

Easiest , and quickest is just to top up via the suppliers  App. Its no difference than paying by variable direct debit so long as you keep an eye on the credit level on the meter .
.I get smart meters fitted in two weeks time so its something I will consider rather than a direct debit .Prepayment on a smart meter will allow me to keep my money in my account all the time  and the supplier gets none of my credit  build up which I lose interest on . I have £700 credit with Octopus at the moment 

MattMattMattUK

SAC2334 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

SAC2334 said:

Interesting to see Jeremy Hunt chatting to Martin Lewis on TV last night saying hes going to remove any prepayment meter add ons .I presume that means on higher standing charges as well as unit costs .
Smart prepayment must be the quickest and easiest money transfers paying for energy in advance with very small charges in between occupier and supplier .Maybe they should be on even lower unit rates than credit meters .

It depends how the customer pays the supplier, even via smart. If they top up via Direct Debit then it is the cheapest to operate, lowest costs, no bad debt. If they top up via card then it drops below normal Direct Debit straight away due to card processing fees, even when accounting for bad debt. If they use a physical card to top up their smart meter (there is a physical card, which can be topped up at PayPoint, which goes onto the smart meter) then it is the most expensive method for the supplier by some way. 

As far as the suppliers are concerned the ideal would be everyone on prepayment and topping up via Direct Debit with a smart meter, lowest cost, very minimal bad debt, easy to operate. 

Easiest , and quickest is just to top up via the suppliers  App. Its no difference than paying by variable direct debit so long as you keep an eye on the credit level on the meter .
.I get smart meters fitted in two weeks time so its something I will consider rather than a direct debit .Prepayment on a smart meter will allow me to keep my money in my account all the time  and the supplier gets none of my credit  build up which I lose interest on . I have £700 credit with Octopus at the moment 

Why not just pay by variable Direct Debit rather than pre-payment? I do that with Octopus, they bill me on the 28th and take the money out on the 8th, I never build up a credit with them. 

Hoenir

MeteredOut said:

Qyburn said:

MeteredOut said:

QrizB said:

tifo said:

Ofcom has said it will allow the energy companies to add £16 a year to bills to pay for the combined debt owed. So the energy will be repaid through everyone else and still fit prepayment meters to take debt from the bill payer. Windfall.

The £16 is for unrecoverable bad debt, not all debt. It assumes that debt recovery efforts continue as planned.

There is no windfall.

So the suppliers will not (be able to) sell on these unrecoverable debts?

Who would buy an truly unrecoverable debt?  I don't know if you're implying that the supplier isn't out of pocket if they can sell their debt on, but if so you may not be aware that debt purchasers only pay a few percent of the nominal value. 

Just because a supplier says something is unrecoverable, does that mean a debt collection agency would (have to) assume the same?


 

Irrecoverable only means one thing. In the real world there's plenty of people who go to enormous lengths not to settle their dues. Always be the case, Called human nature.