PCN letters not delivered, legal letter 1st correspondence received

Coupon-mad

Would NCP be bound by this? 

Not at an Airport.  The PoFA doesn't apply.  But nor can they hold a registered keeper liable, as long as you don't say who was driving.  Perfect if you weren't.  Untouchable and they are pursuing the wrong person, which you can say.

Why do you think you can appeal at this stage? You can't unless they say so.  Which is why the end of my advice was & still is:

If not, let NCP sue. Particularly easy to defend if the keeper wasn't the driver that day.

KeithP

Altax said:

@Coupon-mad, Unfortunately Gatwick were not interested in assisting in any queries relating to PCNs, instead directing me to the NCP Customer Services team.

Looking through the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, paragraphs 9.4/9.5 state:

(4)The notice must be given by—

(a)handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or

(b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.

(5) The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended. 

Would NCP be bound by this?  Not that I have received any PCN from NCP but, the copy of the PCN that BWLegal sent me in November was actually dated 5th Sept 2023, this being 37 days after the date of the contravention. 

I'm thinking my next step will be to appeal on the NCP website and failing that on the POPLA website.

But the parking company can only use POFA 2012 to transfer any driver's liability to a keeper if the parking event took place on 'relevant land'. In POFA you will see that land under statutory control is not relevant land.
Gatwick Airport, and most airports, are covered by byelaws and are therefore under statutory control.

In a nutshell that means that a) they don't have to consider POFA at all, and b) the fourteen days are irrelevant, and c) they have no way of transferring any driver's liability to a keeper.
That last point is particularly significant - don't tell anyone who was driving.

Altax

Thank you @Coupon-mad and @KeithP.  Much appreciated. 

troublemaker22

Echoing what others have written, there is no keeper liability for parking charges at airports. NCP knows this as do BW Legal. However they also know that the average motorist doesn’t know this so they routinely sue keepers in the County Court in order to trick them into paying up.  

They will always back down (and lose their court fee if they’ve started proceedings) in the face of a motorist who stands their ground on this point. 

If you haven’t already done so, write to BW Legal as follows:

“I am the registered keeper of the vehicle. I am not obliged to identify the driver and I decline to do so. As there is no legal presumption that the keeper of a vehicle was its driver on any particular occasion, your client cannot pursue me as driver (see VCS v Edward, 2023). 

As you and your client are well aware, there is no keeper liability at Gatwick Airport because the airport is not ‘relevant land’ as defined in Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. So your client cannot pursue me as keeper. 

As your client cannot pursue me as driver or keeper, it would be an abuse of the court’s process for your client to issue a claim against me and I will defend any such claim vigorously and seek costs in relation to your client’s unreasonable conduct”

scoobymib3

Hi,

I am in kind of the same position but I have messed up the options that have been mentioned above. My V5 was for my old address so I presume the PCN went to that address. Knowing I was at fault for parking charge (was on 20/9/23) I phone NCP on 24/9 and 10/10 to address the fine I was due to pay but there was nothing on their systems for my registration. I even recorded part of that conversation on 10/10 where the advisor stated that.

Unfortunately, after receiving the first letter from BWLegal I contacted them to state my case during which I would have implied, if not stated, that I was the driver at the time. I was hoping that with proof of my attempts to pay the fine with NCP that I would be be able to appeal the fine and pay the reduced charge.

They stated on that call that the fine wasnt raised until 14/11/23, so nearly 2 months after my offence took place. Not sure what route to take with this now? I was about to call NCP to appeal the original charge but wanted to see if I could get advise here first

cheers
Martin

Coupon-mad

Why are you calling an 'outrageous scam invoice' (MPs' words)  a fine?  And you also used the word 'offence'.  It's neither.

Certainly don't phone NCP ... STOP.  I am so glad you came here and asked first.  You don't pay this at any level of charge.

Start your own thread with details of the location and show us both sides of the PCN with all dates showing (redact all refs, car images and data).

Altax

Many Thanks @troublemaker22. I have now received the LoC so, probably a good time to send your suggested text. Is it also worth including the fact that I never received a PCN from NCP. The first I knew was when I received the initial BW Legal letter 101 days after the driver's alleged infringement at Gatwick Airport. NCP use a hybrid mail firm, "Unity 5", whoever they are, giving me no traceability to find out where the PCNs have been lost (if sent at all!). I enquired at Royal Mail but the guy had never heard of them and none of the reference numbers tallied with anything on the Royal Mail systems.
Having not received a PCN, the right to settle for £15 within 14 days was lost, as was the right to appeal directly to NCP within 28 days meaning I don't have an "appeal rejection verification code" from them which, in turn, means I am unable to appeal to POPLA. 

Thanks
A

troublemaker22

Keep it simple.  You are dealing with BW Legal who are not the brightest stars in the legal profession's firmament.  Just write what I advised you to write and come back here if they bother to respond.

Alloonsl

I have same issue with 'ghost PCNs' during the same timeframe.  DVLA/V5 docs all up to date and correct. 

I tried to make a payment for a drop off in July, but was outside the allocated time frame to make the payment after forgetting on the day. I set up an account online to automate future payments to ensure I didn't fall foul of that again and awaited my notice letter. Nothing was received until a legal demand from BW Legal in November for £170.00.

I responded via their online portal to ask for a copy of the original PCN as i had received nothing (annoyingly using the web form means you dont have a copy of your letter). In December I got a reply saying I'd have to prove I didn't receive it, which of course is an impossibility.

With extensive research through consumer forums (incl here and Facebook groups), I found this is a common tactic adopted by parking companies and their legal representatives to elicit inflated charges all the country.

I subsequently responded to BW Legal again (by post requiring a signature on receipt but since seen you recommend not to do that!) stating this is fraudulent practice and until I'm given opportunity to pay the original late fee I won't correspond again. By return they sent copies of two PCNs.  I have never received these before.

To provide context, I live in a house with a single letterbox (ie. not flats or shared accommodation). The letterbox is in the main front door so mail is immediately secured within the property (ie. Not a wall mounted box). I am the only adult living at the property who picks up the post or opens it. I work full time from home so am present when mail is delivered. The chances of me missing not one but two pieces of correspondence from the same organisation are zero.

BW Legal are threatening court action with additional costs and impact on my credit rating. Given the number of times this exact scenario has been experienced by people all over the country, what options do I have to continue to challenge their demands and pay the original late fee of £15 only?  I've written to my MP too as Gatwick is the 'local' airport for her constituents.

This demand and threat of legal action as a standalone issue would cause distress enough, but combined with additional personal pressures this is a major issue for me right now and I'm struggling to deal with it. I have less than 14 days to respond.

Any support or advice you can offer would be gratefully received

Coupon-mad

You'll want to sign the petition posted about recently by @Nellymoser

As for your case, start a new thread.