Landscaping job gone bad - small claims?

DullGreyGuy

why123 said:

born_again said:

If you paid (invoice) to the company (makes no difference where funds were paid) & they are now dissolved. Where do you think any funds will come from?

From what I can see his company dissolved before we engaged. Everything I paid went into his account apart from the cash so there was no company. I guess this could make it harder to claim?

So what does any of your paperwork say about the entity you are contracted to? Invoices or quotes etc?

Some people mistake the branding at the top of the page for the entity whereas traditionally the entity is identified in the footer.

Who you paid is broadly irrelevant. 

why123

I don't have any invoices, we just agreed everything in whatsapp. As said he was a friend of a very very good friend. Its just my good friend only played rugby with this guy but never had landscaping work from him. So he came viewed the job and we spoke in whatsapp about requirements, pricing, etc. Here he sent me his FB page for his company etc, which is still up. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

why123 said:

I don't have any invoices, we just agreed everything in whatsapp. As said he was a friend of a very very good friend. Its just my good friend only played rugby with this guy but never had landscaping work from him. So he came viewed the job and we spoke in whatsapp about requirements, pricing, etc. Here he sent me his FB page for his company etc, which is still up. 

Hello OP

Do you know the name on the bank account you paid? In the absence of any terms or paperwork stipulating you paid an LTD I would assume the owner of the bank account would be a deciding factor.

Whilst a company director can have their name on a bank account, the account itself (and the money in it) belongs to the LTD.

If he messed up by giving you a personal account to pay into and no other info you might have good cause to argue your contract was with him rather than a company.  

You say his LTD was dissolved in Sep, when did you agree the work? If he dissolved voluntarily I'm pretty sure a company has to be inactive for 3 months beforehand and it can then take a while for the LTD to be struck off after the application is filed. 

Things might be different is his LTD was struck off by force, I'm not sure on that aspect.

Have you looked at the filing history on Companies House? It might give you clearer insight to when the company stopped trading and help you pin this on being a contract with a person rather than an LTD:

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11424945

I know hindsight is 20/20 but for a labour only job paying 50% up front is generally not advisable. If a job includes materials paying for those when they land on site is fine in my view but any advance payment beyond £100 to secure a booking in the future is something I'd walk away from. I'm not intending to be preachy, just might help in the future  

And with not being preachy in mind, if you decide to replace the artificial grass, a living lawn will add so much to your garden, worms, beetles and a whole host of other bugs will live in the lawn, flowers will grow attracting bees, birds will feed on the bugs, when you sit on the patio and watch the rest of the garden full of life it'll distract you from this craziness of money and dishonesty that we all have to live under   

One other thing @DullGreyGuy you mention the 10K being at the limit of the Small Track, can someone only claim say £9500 of their losses to avoid the Fast Track?

DullGreyGuy

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:
One other thing DullGreyGuy you mention the 10K being at the limit of the Small Track, can someone only claim say £9500 of their losses to avoid the Fast Track?

It's not a hard line between Small and Fast Track (nor multi-track) hence why you have the directions hearing to decide which track to allocate it to. 

Claim value is effectively used as a proxy for complexity and its possible for lower value cases to end up in Fast Track and higher value cases to end up in Small Track. Clearly the closer to the line you are the more uncertainty there is. The courts generally are encouraged to put things into the lowest track possible. 

So yes you can reduce your claim, not claim interest or court fees in an attempt to get into Small Track but may find yourself in Fast Track anyway. 

why123

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

why123 said:

I don't have any invoices, we just agreed everything in whatsapp. As said he was a friend of a very very good friend. Its just my good friend only played rugby with this guy but never had landscaping work from him. So he came viewed the job and we spoke in whatsapp about requirements, pricing, etc. Here he sent me his FB page for his company etc, which is still up. 

Hello OP

Do you know the name on the bank account you paid? In the absence of any terms or paperwork stipulating you paid an LTD I would assume the owner of the bank account would be a deciding factor.

Whilst a company director can have their name on a bank account, the account itself (and the money in it) belongs to the LTD.

If he messed up by giving you a personal account to pay into and no other info you might have good cause to argue your contract was with him rather than a company.  

You say his LTD was dissolved in Sep, when did you agree the work? If he dissolved voluntarily I'm pretty sure a company has to be inactive for 3 months beforehand and it can then take a while for the LTD to be struck off after the application is filed. 

Things might be different is his LTD was struck off by force, I'm not sure on that aspect.

Have you looked at the filing history on Companies House? It might give you clearer insight to when the company stopped trading and help you pin this on being a contract with a person rather than an LTD:

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11424945

I know hindsight is 20/20 but for a labour only job paying 50% up front is generally not advisable. If a job includes materials paying for those when they land on site is fine in my view but any advance payment beyond £100 to secure a booking in the future is something I'd walk away from. I'm not intending to be preachy, just might help in the future  

And with not being preachy in mind, if you decide to replace the artificial grass, a living lawn will add so much to your garden, worms, beetles and a whole host of other bugs will live in the lawn, flowers will grow attracting bees, birds will feed on the bugs, when you sit on the patio and watch the rest of the garden full of life it'll distract you from this craziness of money and dishonesty that we all have to live under   

One other thing @DullGreyGuy you mention the 10K being at the limit of the Small Track, can someone only claim say £9500 of their losses to avoid the Fast Track?

Thanks so much for this. Sorry I have been away. I gave a 5K lump sum cash and the rest went into his personal account by the looks of it. His company dissolved around about the time we were talking and agreeing the work, so he was just doing the work personally but using his "dissolved company" as name. 

I agree, I should of been less trusting, and I generally am too trusting. This incident has definitely changed me. Regarding the lawn, honestly we prefer real grass, however with 2 young kids now and our village has a high water table the ground quickly becomes uneven, boggy and horrible. Now the kids can use the garden alot more without twisting an ankle and any time of the year. 

I now need to do a property search as I have that from companies house and believe he still lives there. Then I think its time to raise a claim. I am tempted to see what a solicitor would offer as they may present the base case on this claim.

I really appreciate the comments and help on here. 

why123

Sorry its been a while again but wanted to update. I did some research on the property and as he told me he doesn't own it. He is renting and that property hasn't been sold since the 1980s. I doubt he has anything tied to his name so I am thinking I could just spending more to get back nothing. I did send a letter to him which was signed but nothing back as suspected. I am now thinking its time to put this behind me and let it be a hard lesson. 

Thanks for everyones help.