How to proceed

I’ll try and keep it short, taking the emotion out of what I’m writing.
There are 3 children, my self (1child), 1 sibling (1 child) 1 sibling (no children) 1 elderly parent. Sibling with no children has been given weeks if not days due to late diagnosis cancer. Elderly parent has rapidly diminishing health. Sadly expecting 2 funerals within short space of time. Elderly parent (no will). 
Sibling and parent own house together bought 30 years ago together with other parent(deceased) will states everything to parent.(i am executor)
parent has no will. (Lacks capacity to do one now)
is there anything we need to do while there is a very short window to do anything.
if brother passes first-parent inherits money,house- 
if parent passes first-intestate rules (3 siblings)
Siblings will does not have any other instructions. Emotionally this is an awful situation that I don’t want to have to deal with, but i know i am going to very shortly.
thanks for reading
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  • Flugelhorn
    Flugelhorn Posts: 5,412
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    edited 5 January at 7:11AM
    So sorry to hear you are going through this at present - wishing you courage and hope you have support from other sibling 

    Apart from being sure your know where paperwork is then there is nothing to do except spend time with the family and look after yourselves.

    What you do afterwards will ultimately depend in the order in which they die. You will have to deal with the estate of the first to die first and then go onto the second - it is just a case of being methodical.

    One thing to consider is that some wills have a clause where people have to survive eg 28 days to be  a beneficiary - this may or may not be relevant in this case - do you know if your sibling has this?
  • Cazzaloulou68
    Cazzaloulou68 Posts: 14
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    Thanks for your reply. No clauses at all. Yes, i have the support of other sibling, and all paperwork for sibling in one place. Thankfully they keep everything. Parent only has a bank account in their name.
  • Flugelhorn
    Flugelhorn Posts: 5,412
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    Just to say at some point you will need to check (you may already know) how the property is owned - if joint or TIC? Sounds like it might be joint and hence probably going to be less complicated when the time comes
  • Keep_pedalling
    Keep_pedalling Posts: 16,163
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    Do you know if they own the house as joint tenants or tenants in common? The big problem I see here is a potential IHT bill that could be reduced or avoided if your brother makes a new will but that does need the tenancy to be split it if they hold it as joint tenants.

    If father dies first and it is a JT then the whole house passes to the joint owner and if this takes your sibling’s estate over his NRB their will be IHT to pay on everything over £325k. If it is held as TiC then your father’s share would be split 3 ways with your sibling only getting and extra 1/6th share of the house.

    If your sibling dies first then as the will directs his entire estate to your father which could have the same effect although in that case his estate will have the residential NRB to claim as well so will have an additional £175k exemption (if the house is worth at least that much) and if he is a widower he could have up to £1M of exemptions.

    Your sibling should make a new will ASAP, even if it is a DIY job simply leaving everything to his two siblings. If the house is a JT then he also needs to split the tenancy, he can do this without needing the permission of your father. Even if IHT is not a problem he should still make a new will to make like easier and to make sure his siblings can act as executors if the current one appoints someone else.
  • Flugelhorn
    Flugelhorn Posts: 5,412
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    Do you know if they own the house as joint tenants or tenants in common? The big problem I see here is a potential IHT bill that could be reduced or avoided if your brother makes a new will but that does need the tenancy to be split it if they hold it as joint tenants.

    If father dies first and it is a JT then the whole house passes to the joint owner and if this takes your sibling’s estate over his NRB their will be IHT to pay on everything over £325k. If it is held as TiC then your father’s share would be split 3 ways with your sibling only getting and extra 1/6th share of the house.

    If your sibling dies first then as the will directs his entire estate to your father which could have the same effect although in that case his estate will have the residential NRB to claim as well so will have an additional £175k exemption (if the house is worth at least that much) and if he is a widower he could have up to £1M of exemptions.

    Your sibling should make a new will ASAP, even if it is a DIY job simply leaving everything to his two siblings. If the house is a JT then he also needs to split the tenancy, he can do this without needing the permission of your father. Even if IHT is not a problem he should still make a new will to make like easier and to make sure his siblings can act as executors if the current one appoints someone else.
    Would they be able to do DoV at all?
  • Keep_pedalling
    Keep_pedalling Posts: 16,163
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    Do you know if they own the house as joint tenants or tenants in common? The big problem I see here is a potential IHT bill that could be reduced or avoided if your brother makes a new will but that does need the tenancy to be split it if they hold it as joint tenants.

    If father dies first and it is a JT then the whole house passes to the joint owner and if this takes your sibling’s estate over his NRB their will be IHT to pay on everything over £325k. If it is held as TiC then your father’s share would be split 3 ways with your sibling only getting and extra 1/6th share of the house.

    If your sibling dies first then as the will directs his entire estate to your father which could have the same effect although in that case his estate will have the residential NRB to claim as well so will have an additional £175k exemption (if the house is worth at least that much) and if he is a widower he could have up to £1M of exemptions.

    Your sibling should make a new will ASAP, even if it is a DIY job simply leaving everything to his two siblings. If the house is a JT then he also needs to split the tenancy, he can do this without needing the permission of your father. Even if IHT is not a problem he should still make a new will to make like easier and to make sure his siblings can act as executors if the current one appoints someone else.
    Would they be able to do DoV at all?
    I don’t think a DoV is of any use if the house is under a joint tenancy as it is not a heritable asset. Even if you could the OP’s sibling may not be in a fit state to make one by the time it is necessary and it sounds like that is already the case with his father.
  • Flugelhorn
    Flugelhorn Posts: 5,412
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    Forumite
    Do you know if they own the house as joint tenants or tenants in common? The big problem I see here is a potential IHT bill that could be reduced or avoided if your brother makes a new will but that does need the tenancy to be split it if they hold it as joint tenants.

    If father dies first and it is a JT then the whole house passes to the joint owner and if this takes your sibling’s estate over his NRB their will be IHT to pay on everything over £325k. If it is held as TiC then your father’s share would be split 3 ways with your sibling only getting and extra 1/6th share of the house.

    If your sibling dies first then as the will directs his entire estate to your father which could have the same effect although in that case his estate will have the residential NRB to claim as well so will have an additional £175k exemption (if the house is worth at least that much) and if he is a widower he could have up to £1M of exemptions.

    Your sibling should make a new will ASAP, even if it is a DIY job simply leaving everything to his two siblings. If the house is a JT then he also needs to split the tenancy, he can do this without needing the permission of your father. Even if IHT is not a problem he should still make a new will to make like easier and to make sure his siblings can act as executors if the current one appoints someone else.
    Would they be able to do DoV at all?
    I don’t think a DoV is of any use if the house is under a joint tenancy as it is not a heritable asset. Even if you could the OP’s sibling may not be in a fit state to make one by the time it is necessary and it sounds like that is already the case with his father.
    agree, thinking about it would be the 2 very ill people who would have to do it and that is not an option- ultimately all comes down to how the house is owned - your advice re a straightforward will by the brother (if possible) is likely to the mot helpful in the circumstances 
  • Alphatauri
    Alphatauri Posts: 102
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    I am sorry your family is facing this. 

    This is the link for splitting a joint tenancy https://www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership/change-from-joint-tenants-to-tenants-in-common . If the parent has a POA I believe they can sign. It may be worth agreeing a different % rather than 50:50 depending on the size of the respective estates and IHT  thresholds. 

    I agree your sibling doing a straightforward will leaving their estate to siblings rather than parent makes a lot of sense. 
  • Cazzaloulou68
    Cazzaloulou68 Posts: 14
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    Thanks again for your input. Sibling was discharged from hospital and its now time for the palliative care team to take over. After lots of frank discussions yesterday over what they want to happen. It was their suggestion that they want to change their will. So next step is to get someone in next week to sort this out. They want to leave their 50pc of house to 2 siblings equally, and all other accounts to be split betweeen siblings also. The house is owned as joint tenants, i believe I’m correct in saying it would have to be held in some sort of trust until parent also passes or enters a care home? Just want to get an idea of what to suggest and ask the solicitor when they see them.
  • Flugelhorn
    Flugelhorn Posts: 5,412
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    good to hear that sibling is home and you have been able to have those discussions, so much harder in hospital 
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