Heathrow parking charge notice

Fruitcake

KXL88 said:

Sorry to hijack this thread, but assuming that if the car is leased, it is just more cost effective to just pay the drop off fee, since the leasing company charges £10 for every forwarded PCN either way. 

Not if you get the PCN cancelled, which is dead easy with APCOA. The hirer can then go back to the hire/lease company and demand the money back because the charge was obviously not correctly issued.

KXL88

Fruitcake said:

KXL88 said:

Sorry to hijack this thread, but assuming that if the car is leased, it is just more cost effective to just pay the drop off fee, since the leasing company charges £10 for every forwarded PCN either way. 

Not if you get the PCN cancelled, which is dead easy with APCOA. The hirer can then go back to the hire/lease company and demand the money back because the charge was obviously not correctly issued.

Thank you, I never knew I could do that, ask the leasing company to undo their 'admin charge' when PCN is cancelled. 

Coupon-mad

Some lease firms will.

BTW we are not advocating not paying the £5.

porridgestation

Appeal the parking charge notice stating you're the keeper (as per the Newbies thread) and then decline to identify the driver by using 'DECLINE TO IDENTIFY' in all fields where APAOC want you to identify the driver.

This letter is my own after forgetting to pay, realising just an hour after the time limit expired was therefore unable to pay online (despite being on the website and ready to do so).

Who was the driver? Was it me? Was it Rishi Sunak? Was it Elvis? We shall never know.

This letter will arrive in the next week or so. APOCA gives up and cancels the parking charge notice in 100% of cases where the driver isn't identified:

per 

Le_Kirk

Hopefully they meant waive (verb) not waiver (noun) - goes to show level of incompetence!

ak_83

troublemaker22 said:

@Half-way is right.  APCOA's drop off arrangements at Heathrow are so chaotic that nobody ever has to pay their PCN and APCOA always cancels the PCN in response to any properly written appeal rather than pay a POPLA fee just for POPLA to order them to cancel it.  Just bang in the following appeal online being careful not to click anything to indicate whether or not you were the driver:

I appeal as keeper. I am not obliged to identify the driver and I decline to do so. I appeal on the following grounds:-

1. You are unable to transfer liability to the keeper pursuant to Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ('POFA') because the drop off zones at Heathrow are not ‘relevant land’ as defined in POFA.

2. Even if (which is not the case) the land in question is relevant land your notice does not conform to the requirements set out in POFA paragraph 9(2)(f).

Furthermore, as keeper I am entitled to all the defences available to the driver including (without limitation) the following:

3. The parking charge is not notified until after the contract is entered into and under the principles set out by the Court of Appeal in Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking, does not form part of the contract between the driver and APCOA.

4. The signage is not compliant with the BPA Code of Practice.

[5.  The car was present in the drop off zone for not more than 5 minutes and the driver is entitled to the 5 minute consideration period mandated by the BPA Code of Practice.]*

Any one of the above reasons is alone sufficient to require cancellation of the PCN.  

I require you to cancel the PCN or issue a POPLA Code so POPLA can order you to cancel it.

* Delete 5 if the car was in the drop off zone for more than 5 minutes.

Regarding the grace period according to the BPA:  

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/NEW Redesigned Documents/sectorsingleCodeofPractice.pdf

Section 5.2 "The grace period does not apply to short stay areas – controlled land where the parking of a vehicle is permissible for a limited period not greater than 30 minutes, for example at airport and railway station drop off and pick up zones." 

KeithP

ak_83 said:

troublemaker22 said:

@Half-way is right.  APCOA's drop off arrangements at Heathrow are so chaotic that nobody ever has to pay their PCN and APCOA always cancels the PCN in response to any properly written appeal rather than pay a POPLA fee just for POPLA to order them to cancel it.  Just bang in the following appeal online being careful not to click anything to indicate whether or not you were the driver:

I appeal as keeper. I am not obliged to identify the driver and I decline to do so. I appeal on the following grounds:-

1. You are unable to transfer liability to the keeper pursuant to Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ('POFA') because the drop off zones at Heathrow are not ‘relevant land’ as defined in POFA.

2. Even if (which is not the case) the land in question is relevant land your notice does not conform to the requirements set out in POFA paragraph 9(2)(f).

Furthermore, as keeper I am entitled to all the defences available to the driver including (without limitation) the following:

3. The parking charge is not notified until after the contract is entered into and under the principles set out by the Court of Appeal in Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking, does not form part of the contract between the driver and APCOA.

4. The signage is not compliant with the BPA Code of Practice.

[5.  The car was present in the drop off zone for not more than 5 minutes and the driver is entitled to the 5 minute consideration period mandated by the BPA Code of Practice.]*

Any one of the above reasons is alone sufficient to require cancellation of the PCN.  

I require you to cancel the PCN or issue a POPLA Code so POPLA can order you to cancel it.

* Delete 5 if the car was in the drop off zone for more than 5 minutes.

Regarding the grace period according to the BPA:  

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/NEW Redesigned Documents/sectorsingleCodeofPractice.pdf

Section 5.2 "The grace period does not apply to short stay areas – controlled land where the parking of a vehicle is permissible for a limited period not greater than 30 minutes, for example at airport and railway station drop off and pick up zones." 

But @ak_83, the alleged parking event took place well before the introduction of the version of the Code of Practice that you have shown us.

ak_83

KeithP said:

ak_83 said:

troublemaker22 said:

@Half-way is right.  APCOA's drop off arrangements at Heathrow are so chaotic that nobody ever has to pay their PCN and APCOA always cancels the PCN in response to any properly written appeal rather than pay a POPLA fee just for POPLA to order them to cancel it.  Just bang in the following appeal online being careful not to click anything to indicate whether or not you were the driver:

I appeal as keeper. I am not obliged to identify the driver and I decline to do so. I appeal on the following grounds:-

1. You are unable to transfer liability to the keeper pursuant to Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ('POFA') because the drop off zones at Heathrow are not ‘relevant land’ as defined in POFA.

2. Even if (which is not the case) the land in question is relevant land your notice does not conform to the requirements set out in POFA paragraph 9(2)(f).

Furthermore, as keeper I am entitled to all the defences available to the driver including (without limitation) the following:

3. The parking charge is not notified until after the contract is entered into and under the principles set out by the Court of Appeal in Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking, does not form part of the contract between the driver and APCOA.

4. The signage is not compliant with the BPA Code of Practice.

[5.  The car was present in the drop off zone for not more than 5 minutes and the driver is entitled to the 5 minute consideration period mandated by the BPA Code of Practice.]*

Any one of the above reasons is alone sufficient to require cancellation of the PCN.  

I require you to cancel the PCN or issue a POPLA Code so POPLA can order you to cancel it.

* Delete 5 if the car was in the drop off zone for more than 5 minutes.

Regarding the grace period according to the BPA:  

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/NEW Redesigned Documents/sectorsingleCodeofPractice.pdf

Section 5.2 "The grace period does not apply to short stay areas – controlled land where the parking of a vehicle is permissible for a limited period not greater than 30 minutes, for example at airport and railway station drop off and pick up zones." 

But @ak_83, the alleged parking event took place well before the introduction of that version of the Code of Practice that you have shown us.

I thought I should share the update as others will undoubtedly use the above text to appeal new cases. 

Coupon-mad

But it doesn't matter.  What the BPA & IPC say in a Code of Practice means diddly squat.

Easylawn2123

I appealed a PCN at Heathrow Terminal 5 using the template three weeks ago. 
Bingo they cancelled it. 
I think it's the not being to identify the driver more than the 5 mins period of grace. I think I would delete that paragraph if there is a next time. 
Thanks to everybody here for their advice. It's rare that internet advice looks so right. 
Still it would be have been a lot easier to pay the fine.