A local "highly recommended" trader may have ripped me off.

ArbitraryRandom

HHarry said:

AdamPD said:

cardriver98 said:

why would you trust ANYTHING ln social media.. ??
CHECK A TRADE and the like are the go to firms !

I was hoping to avoid receiving unhelpful comments like this by starting my op explaining I was naive and made stupid mistakes, but there's always one I guess.
With regards to check a trade, it's not a guaranteed source of trademen/women who won't let you down, the last trader I hired from trustpilot to redo my kitchen did an awful job and nothing short of ripping it out and redoing the whole floor, will fix it.

Just ignore it Adam.  As all the horror stories about Checkatrade show, it really isn’t the place to go.   Any site that is financed by the Tradespeople it is promoting has to keep them sweet; and that can be to the detriment of those that want the work done.

+1 this is exactly what I was just about to post. 

Checkatrade, trustedtrader, rate my builder - all the worst places to go for recommendations. There's no verification of a trader's details before they're published, there's no verification of reviews, and the site makes it's money from traders paying to list so they have no incentive to remove cowboys... 

The best way to find someone good and reliable is recommendations from people you know (your friends /family /neighbours who have had work done that you can go and see). 

Second best (IMO) is via your local builder's merchants etc

AdamPD

Thank you both.
I'm almost 100% certain the door and service will never be provided, there's just too many red flags and a complete lack of interest in keeping me updated
But I will wait until Wednesday to contact him again
At that point, what do any of you suggest I say? I was planning on saying refund me within 24 hours or I take this to the small claims court? or is that too "forceful"?
I was also wondering if it'd be worth piling on the pressure a bit in the mean time by asking in the facebook group he's in whether others have had issues with his service, or is that a bad idea?
Obviously I don't want the situation to turn hostile if there's even a small chance of getting the door or a refund, but I feel pressure needs to be applied before it goes to the claims court.

Aylesbury_Duck

A letter before action, which you'll need to send ahead of any court action, does the job for you.  24 hours us unreasonable.  It's normal to send an LBA giving 14 days before commencing legal action.

Don't mess about on Facebook.  It's a cesspit of rubbish written by people you know little about, and nothing good will come of it.

RefluentBeans

AdamPD said:

Thank you both.
I'm almost 100% certain the door and service will never be provided, there's just too many red flags and a complete lack of interest in keeping me updated
But I will wait until Wednesday to contact him again
At that point, what do any of you suggest I say? I was planning on saying refund me within 24 hours or I take this to the small claims court? or is that too "forceful"?
I was also wondering if it'd be worth piling on the pressure a bit in the mean time by asking in the facebook group he's in whether others have had issues with his service, or is that a bad idea?
Obviously I don't want the situation to turn hostile if there's even a small chance of getting the door or a refund, but I feel pressure needs to be applied before it goes to the claims court.

Personally, commenting publicly calling him out when he’s got all your money is a sure fire way to make sure he drags his feet and becomes hostile towards you. Ultimately, you’ll be able to get the money back from SCC, but if you can avoid the court entirely it’s better, quicker and less stressful.

Also if the product is custom made (and you said the website says 3-5 week lead time) it may be plausible that the first order didn’t go through (which doesn’t excuse it - he should’ve checked it) and so had to be made from scratch. Given it was Christmas and new year break, it may be the door is being dispatched currently. 

One man traders often struggle with communication in the long term of clients who have long time delays with jobs. They’re quoting, and completing jobs all the time, and not necessarily looking at Facebook and text messages until the evenings (and they are human - sometimes they just crash out and sleep when they get home before checking messages). 

What I would recommend is having a face to face (like he said) so he ‘can assess the damage’ from the delay - using this as a pretence. Then when he’s there probe around and explain him to your concern of the door should’ve been here by now, and you’re worried the damage is getting worse. You can ask to see the order confirmation just for your own peace of mind. 

Whilst I think he should’ve been more upfront about communication and that there’s been delays, ultimately building work often gets delayed. Writing a LBA means the work probably won’t get done as it’s a hostile (if you get a letter from a company saying they’re going to take you to court you probably won’t want to do work with them anymore…) action. 

Realistically - if you haven’t got the cash to pay another contractor to do the job then it may be months before you get the money through the courts. The legal system is not known to be quick. If you cancel the contract and he’s already ordered the building supplies (made to your specification) then you’d potentially be on the hook for that. I would really speak to him in person and see how he is with you. If the door has been ordered and made but is caught in Christmas/New Year shipping delays then why not just wait for the project to be done. If the door hasn’t been ordered (or only ordered say last week) then yeah I would cancel and ask for a full refund. And only if that fails consider LBA/SCC. All other options should be exhausted first. 

AdamPD

Thank you both again, I won't go the facebook route then.

Regarding the delivery times, yea I was trying to find the section about lead times, it's in the FAQ where it states:

Stock items are normally dispatched within 5 working days.

None stock custom orders including fire exits are normally dispatched within 4 to 5 weeks

But I'm not sure if it's a non stock item or not.

I did customize the door as I suspect he would have to and it doesn't let you choose a delivery date, so hard to say.

But yea I will ask for proof of the order, I Was thinking about that last night.

RefluentBeans

AdamPD said:

Thank you both again, I won't go the facebook route then.

Regarding the delivery times, yea I was trying to find the section about lead times, it's in the FAQ where it states:

Stock items are normally dispatched within 5 working days.

None stock custom orders including fire exits are normally dispatched within 4 to 5 weeks

But I'm not sure if it's a non stock item or not.

I did customize the door as I suspect he would have to and it doesn't let you choose a delivery date, so hard to say.

But yea I will ask for proof of the order, I Was thinking about that last night.

I think that’s a fair compromise - if he isn’t willing to show it to you (‘sorry mate - my old smashed phone had the emails on’ sort of response) and if he can’t give a definitive date to install the door, then I would ask for a refund, as it’s now been three months. 

If he doesn’t give you the money back, then you may have to chase it through small claims court. If you do speak to him in person, be sure ti follow up the conversation with a text/message/email using the ‘as we discussed earlier…’ so you’ve got written proof then, and he can dispute anything at the time rather than in three months time. 

If you do go to SCC you should have a pretty good chance - be sure to look at the costs of filing etc and add that to the the bill he owes you. You said you’re on benefits - I know there is a low income provision https://www.gov.uk/get-help-with-court-fees - but if you do that I’d speak to DWP to see if they want the money claimed as a fee and paid back or if they’re just paying for you. If they just pay and don’t want any money back don’t try and claim the fee as well. 

There’s loads of templates online for letters before action - I would just keep it simple; being sure to include the job description you wanted done, the fact it hasn’t been done, you asked for a refund, and no refund given; and you’d like the money back immediately within the next 14 days; and that if they don’t pay then you’ll be filing a small claims court and the amount may go up with filing fees and interest. Don’t make it sound ‘lawyerly’ as it doesn’t need it, a simple one pager is more than enough. 

AdamPD

Thank you, yea I'll find a template and modify it nearer to Wednesday
I've just requested a copy of the invoice or screenshot of it, will see if he replies.
I'm betting it'll either be an excuse, as you said, the supposed broken phone, or he won't reply
Ok got a reply back, he said he'll send it when he's back home. (I'm still betting not!)

hogweed

No help really, just a word of solidarity… a far as I can see, there isn't ANY way of being sure who you're dealing with. A year or so ago, I had someone I’d known for years fit some new windows for me (he runs a double glazing firm which has been in business for decades), and thought it was a great job.

It was only a couple of weeks later I noticed that the window frame of one of them was warped, so that the mullions bowed inwards to the room (we’re not often in that room, so hadn’t spotted it). I chased him and chased him, but he kept giving me excuses why he couldn’t come and look at it.

Unfortunately, I developed a couple of on-going health problems, had an operation etc, so didn’t feel up to dealing with it during the year. However, a week or so ago, the window started leaking at the bottom. He won’t answer the phone to me, so I texted him – no reply of course.

I’m going to start a new thread for advice on this, but as I say, this is more a kind of “Me Too” note. OK, you might have been a bit naïve, but it’s still possible to get caught out whatever you do

Good luck...

AdamPD

I decided to take a chance and email the door company to see if they could provide any information based on what I knew, the results weren't good, as far as whether he ordered a door or not, as it doesn't sound like he did, as suspected, they wrote:

==

from looking at all the details below I would suggest someone is having you on,

 if someone placed an order through our website it would be impossible for it to go into a spam box as that isn’t how our ordering system works

 if he had placed an order he would have received an order number but searching his name and company name I cant find anything on our systems, do you know his postcode? 

==

AdamPD

As I suspected - "Neither postcode brings any order up on our system,"

Any advice on what to do now? Just skip ahead and send the letter?