Do invalid speeding tickets appear in Driver Record or count as penalties or convictions?

Happy new year everyone,

The government is asking me for previous penalties and convictions. 
Over 5 years ago, during a short period of time, I got a number of NIPs, but I only had to pay 3 in total. I never knew how many NIPs I got because they were sent, late (due to the car rental paper work) to an address where I was not living (the address had to match the address associated with the payment card which was different from the one on my driving license). The address was one of those London houses with many rooms rented and with high turnover, where correspondence for former occupiers is quickly disposed.
Speaking with justice, they confirmed that I did not have to pay for the other cases as they had been dropped. They were deemed invalid but I don't know the reason.

My understanding is that technically I don't need to report the offences I did not have to pay for, because I ultimately was not sentenced to pay a penalty or convicted, but things in this area are usually not the way I think they are. 
Do these NIPs I did not have to pay also appear in the driving record or criminal record and need to be reported?

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Comments

  • TadleyBaggie
    TadleyBaggie Posts: 5,938
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    Check your driver record on the DVLA website, if they show up you would have to declare them to any insurance company.
  • Car_54
    Car_54 Posts: 8,137
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    A NIP is a Notice of Intended Prosecution, i.e. it is merely a notice, not any sort of penalty. It may or may not lead to prosecution (which in turn may or may not lead to conviction), or to the offer of a course or fixed penalty.

    You never need to "pay a NIP": that only comes when either you accept a fixed penalty, or you're found guilty by a court.

    But check the exact wording of the question you've been asked. 
  • 400ixl
    400ixl Posts: 2,642
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    what does "The government is asking me for previous penalties and convictions. " mean? Who is asking and for what purpose? What is the actual question that is being asked.

    As people have said a NIP is a Notice of Intended Prosecution. There is nothing to to pay on a NIP. They may follow that up with a fixed penalty notification, or a prosecution notice to attend court. Only these have a fine involved with them.
  • TooManyPoints
    TooManyPoints Posts: 1,228
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    edited 2 January at 8:03PM
    As above - check your driving record. If the police have trouble contacting you concerning a traffic matter they may  have served you with a "Section 172" request for driver's details. If you failed to respond to that request you may have been convicted in your absence of failing to provide driver's details. That conviction carries six points.

    As an aside, you appear to have a number of misunderstandings about traffic law and the procedures associated with prosecutions, court procedures and fixed penalties.
  • evinshire
    evinshire Posts: 3
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    Thanks for your replies.

    Do you mean to check on "View or share your driving licence information" www .gov. uk / view-driving-licence ?
    Is that the "driver record"? It only lists "Penalties and disqualifications" in the corresponding tab, so no chance that dropped offences appear there.
    I can't check on that website the foreign driving license I was using at the time of the offences (it only accepts UK driving license strings). I checked my UK driving license and it's completely clean. But note that I did not convert my foreign license to a UK one, so it seems unlikely that the penalties on the former could be passed to the latter.

    This is not for an insurance company, it's for the Home Office. But according to www. askthe . police. uk / faq / ?id=19bcb128-d205-ee11-8f6e-00224840d1ba
    "You should inform your insurance company of any penalty points you have received. The details you provide to them form the basis for your insurance quote and subsequent insurance cover. If any of the details change or are incorrect and you do not inform your insurer, it may affect your cover."
    According to that, you do not need to report offences for which you have not been prosecuted nor had to pay a penalty to an insurance company.

    Sorry for the vocabulary inaccuracies. The Home Office form only asks for "Convictions and other penalties". It also includes cautions, warnings and reprimands whihc I would have thought are not penalties, but I guess they are.







  • TooManyPoints
    TooManyPoints Posts: 1,228
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    ...so no chance that dropped offences appear there.

    "Dropped offences" (at least as  far as traffic matters go) will not appear anywhere. As far as offences for which you were either convicted by a court or received an endorsement by way of a fixed penalty and for which you gave  foreign driving licence details, the DVLA will create a "ghost licence" against your name and DOB. You need to contact them to see what details they hold in that respect.
  • 400ixl
    400ixl Posts: 2,642
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    NIP's are not convictions or other penalties if they did not result in fixed notice penalties or court convictions. Those will show as penalties on your license.

    I would also question if the form is asking for criminal convictions or penalties rather than including motoring offences. What Home Office form is it (they usually have a reference number).

    Cautions, warnings or reprimands will apply to anything which has been given officially of which you would be aware. Again I would have thought they are only talking about criminal.
  • Aretnap
    Aretnap Posts: 5,140
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    400ixl said:
    NIP's are not convictions or other penalties if they did not result in fixed notice penalties or court convictions. Those will show as penalties on your license.

    I would also question if the form is asking for criminal convictions or penalties rather than including motoring offences. What Home Office form is it (they usually have a reference number).

    Cautions, warnings or reprimands will apply to anything which has been given officially of which you would be aware. Again I would have thought they are only talking about criminal.
    Motoring offences are criminal offences and must be declared if you're asked about criminal offences, unless the question specifically says otherwise. 

    (Decriminalised parking tickets and some council-enforced bus lane-type contraventions are exceptions - but speeding is always a criminal matter).

  • Car_54
    Car_54 Posts: 8,137
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    evinshire said:


    This is not for an insurance company, it's for the Home Office. But according to www. askthe . police. uk / faq / ?id=19bcb128-d205-ee11-8f6e-00224840d1ba
    "You should inform your insurance company of any penalty points you have received. The details you provide to them form the basis for your insurance quote and subsequent insurance cover. If any of the details change or are incorrect and you do not inform your insurer, it may affect your cover."
    According to that, you do not need to report offences for which you have not been prosecuted nor had to pay a penalty to an insurance company.

    So, since it’s not for an insurance company, it’s utterly irrelevant. Unless I’m missing something.
  • Aretnap
    Aretnap Posts: 5,140
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    evinshire said:
    This is not for an insurance company, it's for the Home Office.


    So - is it to do with a visa extension or a citizenship application? Or is it something else?

    evinshire said:
    Sorry for the vocabulary inaccuracies. The Home Office form only asks for "Convictions and other penalties". It also includes cautions, warnings and reprimands whihc I would have thought are not penalties, but I guess they are.
    Conviction means that you were convicted by a court - which can happen without you being present in the court, but would result in you getting a fine and/or points on your licence. A fixed penalty (commonly known as a speeding ticket) is an opportunity to pay £100 and have three points added to your licence as an alternative to being prosecuted - and potentially being convicted and getting a bigger fine.

    If it's a citizenship application then you do need to disclose motoring convictions and fixed penalties - but not NIPs which never resulted in an actual prosecution or fixed penalty. Old fixed penalties should not cause your application to fail - but you do still have to declare them.

    As above even if you don't have a UK licence the DVLA will still record convictions and fixed penalties which result in penalty points against a "ghost licence" under your name. However if the offences were more than 5 years ago I'm not sure that the DVLA will still have them on record.

    "Cautions, warnings and reprimands" have specific meanings in this context. A Caution is a way of dealing with a minor crime that you have admitted - you are formally cautioned by a police officer at a police station that you are not being prosecuted this time but if you do it again you will be treated more harshly. Warnings and Reprimands were similar to Cautions but given to teenagers - they have now been replaced with Youth Cautions. None of these things would be used for minor motoring offences like speeding.


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