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Civil Enforcement Ltd Default Judgment - Set Aside Support Requested

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Good evening all,

I fear I come to you with a familiar tale of discovering (via an enforcement letter from DCBL) that CEL have a default judgment made against me in August 2023 to an address that I moved out from in October 2020. This has caused me a particularly large amount of stress as I am a Police Officer so have had to declare this to work, and I am also in the middle of purchasing a flat and realise that I am now going to have to tell my mortgage lender that unbeknownst to me I have a CCJ against me (I presume that it didn't come up in my credit check as I moved out from the address so long ago?).

I have prepared a draft witness statement and order based on the excellent advice on this forum and would really appreciate some critical feedback. I would also appreciate guidance on some other questions:

1. Do I need to add anything to the application to stop enforcement action and/or do I need to worry about Direct Collection Bailiffs?
2. Should I (for the sake of satisfying the court) contact CEL to discuss a consent order prior to submitting this application?
3. Do I need to include a schedule of costs if I want to seek anything more than the £275 already included in my witness statement?
4. Are there any other things I should get in motion now? I am already intending to send SARs to CEL, DCBL, and DVLA (to find out when I changed my V5) and in due course I will also submit a complaint to the BPA about CEL and complain to my MP.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WITNESS STATEMENT OF DEFENDANT

 

INTRODUCTION

1.    I am XXXX of XXXX, and I am the Defendant in this matter.

 

2.    This is my supporting statement to my application dated XX January 2024 requesting the court to:

a.    Set aside the default judgment dated XX August 2023 as it was not properly served at my current address.

b.    Order for the original claim to be dismissed.

c.     Order for the Claimant to pay the Defendant £275 as reimbursement for the set aside fee.


DEFAULT JUDGMENT

3.    I was the registered keeper of the vehicle, VRM XXXX XXX, at the time of the alleged event.

 

4.    I understand that the Claimant obtained a Default Judgment against me as the Defendant on XX August 2023. I am aware that the Claimant is Civil Enforcement Ltd and that the assumed claim is in respect of an unpaid Parking Charge Notice from XX October 2020.

 

5.    The claim form was not served at my current address, and I was therefore unaware of the default County Court Judgment against me until I received a letter from Direct Collection Bailiffs Ltd dated 20th December 2023 to my current address. This was the first correspondence I had received on the matter.

 

6.    The address on the claim is XXXX. I moved out of this address on XX October 2020 and moved to XXXX on the same date. In support of this I have provided evidence that I notified XXXX Water of my change of address on XX October 2020 and subsequently received utility bills to this address.

 

7.    I have subsequently moved address again, firstly to XXXX on XX March 2022, and then to my current address, XXXX on XX December 2022. I provide a utility bill dated XX to my current address.

 

8.    In addition to the above, it should be highlighted that the integrity and law-abiding intention of the Defendant should be taken into consideration on the basis of the below.

 

SEQUENCE OF RECENT EVENTS

9.    I first discovered there was a default County Court Judgment against me when I received a letter from Direct Collection Bailiffs Ltd on 22nd December 2023. The letter is dated 20th December 2023.

 

10.  That same day on 22nd December 2023, I purchased searches of the Register of Judgments, Orders and Fines for England and Wales in relation to my current and previous addresses to identify the CCJ.

 

11.  On 28th December 2023, after the Christmas bank holidays, I contacted the Civil National Business Centre to obtain relevant information relating to this default judgment. I received an email containing the Particulars of the Claim.

 

12.  On XX January 2024 I submitted my application in order to set-aside this judgment and fairly present my case. I acted promptly to resolve this matter once it came to my attention.

 

CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES 13.2

13.  I believe the Claimant has behaved unreasonably in pursuing a claim against me without ensuring they held my correct contact details at the time of the claim. I was therefore denied the opportunity to defend the claim. 

 

14.  On that basis, I believe the Claimant has not adhered to Civil Procedure Rules (CPR) 6.9 (3) as they failed to show due diligence in using an address at which the Defendant no longer resides. The Claimant did not take reasonable steps to ascertain the address of my current residence despite having over 32 months to establish an address. This has led to the claim being incorrectly served to an old address and an irregular judgment.

 

15.  At no time did the Claimant receive any response from me at the old address and therefore the Claimant had reason to believe that it is an address at which I no longer reside. It was improper for the Claimant to rely upon it for service.

 

16.  Under CPR 13.2 the court must set aside a judgment entered under Part 12 if judgment was wrongly entered.  Given that CPR 6.9 (3) was not met, CPR 13.2 applies and the judgment should be set aside.

 

17.  The Claimant is an approved operator of the British Parking Association (BPA). The BPA has anticipated that issues will arise where operators do not take reasonable steps to ascertain correct addresses.

 

18.  Clause 24.1c of the BPA Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice (Version 8 – January 2020) states “Before serving a Letter Before Claim and prior to the issue of proceedings, Operators must, if no responses have been received to the NTD/NTK/reminder letters, take reasonable endeavours to ensure that the contact details for the person you are writing to are correct.”

 

19.  The Claimant failed to take reasonable endeavours to ascertain my correct current address prior to issuing proceedings and is therefore in breach of the Code of Practice. 

 

20.  The system used by the Claimant is called 'KADOE' (Keeper On Date of Event) and provides a brief 'snapshot in time' address to enable a parking firm to send a Notice. Operators are only allowed to ask the DVLA once, hence the code of practice requires reasonable steps are taken to check address details are current before litigation. Even if a motorist later updated a VC5 logbook with a new address (or if the DVLA failed to note a change in a timely manner, which is reportedly common) a parking operator will not know, nor be able to find that out.

 

21.  I, the Defendant, was 'there to be found' for the sake of a 29 pence bulk Experian trace or similar very inexpensive and immediate credit reference agency address check. I would then have been notified of this judgment and could have taken action to prevent it.

 

22.  Such an address check has evidently been undertaken by Direct Collection Bailiffs Ltd whom the Claimant has now instructed to collect the default judgment.

 

23.  Given that more than 4 months has passed from issue of proceedings and service of the claim was defective (as it was never served) I submit that this particular claim is dead and the period for service cannot be extended by this application process. I have no details of this claim beyond the very brief particulars, therefore, if the Claimant believes there is a cause of action then the correct procedure would be to file a claim afresh and to the right address, after furnishing me with the information required under the pre-action protocol for debt claims. This should be issued to my correct address for service which is XXXX.

 

24.  There are several authorities for this, including the judgment in Boxwood [2021] EWHC 947 (TCC), which is a reminder of the strictness of the requirements of CPR 7.6 and how difficult it is to use other parts of the Civil Procedure Rules to rectify a failure to serve the claim form within the requisite period: “A claimant is not entitled to rely on the wide, general powers under CPR 3.10 or CPR 3.9 to circumvent the specific conditions set out in CPR 7.6(3) for extending the period for service of a claim form.”

 

25.  In Vinos v Marks & Spencer plc [2000] EWCA Civ B526 the Court of Appeal considered whether any extension of time should be granted under CPR 7.6 in circumstances where the defendant had been notified of the issue of a claim form but the claim form had not been served within four months as required by CPR 7.5 and the application was made after expiry of that period. The court refused to grant relief on the basis that it did not have power to do so.

 

26.  According to publicly available information my circumstances are far from being unique. The industry’s persistent failure to use correct and current addresses results in an unnecessary burden for individuals and the justice system across the country.

 

CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES 13.3

27.  In the alternative, I submit that CPR 13.3 applies and there are very good reasons to set aside this claim. I have good prospects of defending a claim, if served with one, however I have seen no evidence, basis, nor detailed particulars of claim, and the Claimant should be required to file afresh if they believe they have a cause of action.

 

28.  If filed afresh I would anticipate a defence including submissions on:

 

a.    The Claimant failed to meet the Notice to Keeper obligations of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012

b.    Lack of adequate notice of the parking charge on clear signage, as acknowledged by the Supreme Court in ParkingEye Limited v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67

c.     Putting Claimant to strict proof on evidence of landowner authority or a legal contract, as required by the BPA Code of Practice

 

COSTS

29.  Considering the above, I was unable to defend this claim. I believe that the default judgment against me was issued incorrectly and thus should be set aside. Discovering this default judgment has had a significant impact on my life. I am a Police Officer and have had to declare this judgment to my employer. I am in the midst of purchasing a house and have had to declare this judgment to my mortgage lender.

 

30.  I ask the Court to kindly consider the reimbursement of the fee of £275 from the Claimant should this request be successful.

 

Statement of Truth

I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against a person who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

Signed ________

Date __________



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DRAFT ORDER

CLAIM No: XXXX

BETWEEN:

CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LIMITED (Claimant)

-- and --

XX (Defendant)

 

UPON reading the defendant’s application dated XX January 2024

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT:

 

1. The default judgment dated XX August 2023 be set aside.

 

2. The claim struck out due to the claim form having not been served within 4 months of issue.

 

3. The Claimant do pay the Defendant’s costs of this application of £275 on an indemnity basis.


«1

Comments

  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 41,296 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 30 December 2023 at 11:21PM
    I am already intending to send SARs to CEL, DCBL, and DVLA (to find out when I changed my V5) and in due course I will also submit a complaint to the BPA about CEL and complain to my MP.
    No need for a SAR to find out when your vehicle's Registration Document (V5c) was changed.
    Look at the document itself.

    Look for the Doc Ref number. There is a date following it.
    It varies, but on my V5c it's at the bottom of the second page in a box headed "Official use only. Do not write in this space".

    The first line format is an eleven digit Document Reference Number followed by a dd mm yy date.

    That is the date that your V5c was last updated.
  • Sadly I have moved address several times since the address that CEL used (dutifully updating my V5C each time) so it only tells me when I updated it for my current address. I moved out of the first address in October 2020, then I moved again in March 2022 and December 2022.
  • Good afternoon All and Happy New Year. I'd really appreciate it if anyone is able to help with reviewing my WS before I send it off this week (and if anyone can assist with my questions to).

    Thank you.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,354 Forumite
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    edited 2 January 2024 at 5:16PM
    In the Draft Order, add:

    2. The claim is hereby struck out due to the claim form having not been served within 4 months of issue. 
    OR
    the claim is hereby struck out due to the Claimant's failure to particularise the contractual term relied upon or the alleged breach, this being the same Claimant and inadequate POC as seen in Civil Enforcement v Chan (a persuasive recent appeal relating to a mirror image CCJ Set aside case).

    In the WS add the Chan transcript as an exhibit along with your other exhibits proving you moved but were 'there to be found'.

    And add the usual words about CEL v Chan as linked in the Template Defence third paragraph. Go and copy the two paragraphs and the transcript from the hharry linked defence.

    And also re the WS, move this up to the first few paragraphs:

    "Discovering this default judgment has had a significant impact on my life. I am a Police Officer and have had to declare this judgment to my employer. I am in the midst of purchasing a house and have had to declare this judgment to my mortgage lender."

    And change this as shown:

    30.  I ask the Court:

    (a). to order the reimbursement of the fee of £275 from the Claimant should this application successfully see the claim struck out, or in the alternative:

    (b). if the claim is not struck out, to Order that the Claimant serve full particulars and evidence of the term, photographs of the signage and to specify the alleged breach and basis for alleged liability, with the application and hearing attendance costs being reserved, and that in the event of discontinuance after the CCJ is set aside, the Claimant must reimburse (within 7 days of the date of discontinuance) the Defendant's costs as they stand after the first hearing.

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  • Thank you Coupon-mad. I have amended my WS and draft order to the below and will be submitting it to the court tomorrow unless anyone else has any further feedback?

    Is there any further feedback re my questions in the original post from anyone?

    Thank you.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    WITNESS STATEMENT OF DEFENDANT

     

    INTRODUCTION

    1.    I am XXXX of XXXX, and I am the Defendant in this matter.

     

    2.    This is my supporting statement to my application dated XX January 2024 requesting the court to:

    a.    Set aside the default judgment dated XX August 2023 as it was not properly served at my current address.

    b.    Order for the original claim to be dismissed.

    c.     Order for the Claimant to pay the Defendant £275 as reimbursement for the set aside fee.


    DEFAULT JUDGMENT

    3.    I was the registered keeper of the vehicle, VRM XXXX XXX, at the time of the alleged event.

     

    4.    I understand that the Claimant obtained a Default Judgment against me as the Defendant on XX August 2023. I am aware that the Claimant is Civil Enforcement Ltd and that the assumed claim is in respect of an unpaid Parking Charge Notice from XX October 2020.

     

    5.    The claim form was not served at my current address, and I was therefore unaware of the default County Court Judgment against me until I received a letter from Direct Collection Bailiffs Ltd dated XX December 2023 to my current address. This was the first correspondence I had received on the matter.

     

    6.    The address on the claim is XX. I moved out of this address on XX October 2020 and moved to XX on the same date. In support of this I provide exhibit XX as evidence that I notified XX Water of my change of address on XX October 2020 and would subsequently receive utility bills to this address.

     

    7.    I have subsequently moved address again, firstly to XX on XX March 2022, and then to my current address, XX on XX December 2022. I provide a utility bill dated XX May 2023 to my current address as exhibit XX.

     

    8.    Discovering this default judgment has had a significant impact on my life. I am a Police Officer and have had to declare this judgment to my employer. I am in the midst of purchasing a house and have had to declare this judgment to my mortgage lender.

     

    9.    In addition to the above, it should be highlighted that the integrity and law-abiding intention of the Defendant should be taken into consideration on the basis of the below.

     

    SEQUENCE OF RECENT EVENTS

    10.  I first discovered there was a default County Court Judgment against me when I received a letter from Direct Collection Bailiffs Ltd on 22nd December 2023. The letter is dated 20th December 2023.

     

    11.  That same day on 22nd December 2023, I purchased searches of the Register of Judgments, Orders and Fines for England and Wales in relation to my current and previous addresses to identify the CCJ.

     

    12.  On 28th December 2023, after the Christmas bank holidays, I contacted the Civil National Business Centre to obtain relevant information relating to this default judgment. I received an email containing the Particulars of the Claim.

     

    13.  On XX January 2024 I submitted my application in order to set-aside this judgment and fairly present my case. I acted promptly to resolve this matter once it came to my attention.

     

    CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES 13.2

    14.  I believe the Claimant has behaved unreasonably in pursuing a claim against me without ensuring they held my correct contact details at the time of the claim. I was therefore denied the opportunity to defend the claim. 

     

    15.  On that basis, I believe the Claimant has not adhered to Civil Procedure Rules (CPR) 6.9 (3) as they failed to show due diligence in using an address at which the Defendant no longer resides. The Claimant did not take reasonable steps to ascertain the address of my current residence despite having over 32 months to establish an address. This has led to the claim being incorrectly served to an old address and an irregular judgment.

     

    16.  At no time did the Claimant receive any response from me at the old address and therefore the Claimant had reason to believe that it is an address at which I no longer reside. It was improper for the Claimant to rely upon it for service.

     

    17.  Under CPR 13.2 the court must set aside a judgment entered under Part 12 if judgment was wrongly entered.  Given that CPR 6.9 (3) was not met, CPR 13.2 applies and the judgment should be set aside.

     

    18.  The Claimant is an approved operator of the British Parking Association (BPA). The BPA has anticipated that issues will arise where operators do not take reasonable steps to ascertain correct addresses.

     

    19.  Clause 24.1c of the BPA Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice (Version 8 – January 2020) states “Before serving a Letter Before Claim and prior to the issue of proceedings, Operators must, if no responses have been received to the NTD/NTK/reminder letters, take reasonable endeavours to ensure that the contact details for the person you are writing to are correct.”

     

    20.  The Claimant failed to take reasonable endeavours to ascertain my correct current address prior to issuing proceedings and is therefore in breach of the Code of Practice. 

     

    21.  The system used by the Claimant is called 'KADOE' (Keeper On Date of Event) and provides a brief 'snapshot in time' address to enable a parking firm to send a Notice. Operators are only allowed to ask the DVLA once, hence the code of practice requires reasonable steps are taken to check address details are current before litigation. Even if a motorist later updated a VC5 logbook with a new address (or if the DVLA failed to note a change in a timely manner, which is reportedly common) a parking operator will not know, nor be able to find that out.

     

    22.  I, the Defendant, was 'there to be found' for the sake of a 29 pence bulk Experian trace or similar very inexpensive and immediate credit reference agency address check. I would then have been notified of this judgment and could have taken action to prevent it.

     

    23.  Such an address check has evidently been undertaken by Direct Collection Bailiffs Ltd whom the Claimant has now instructed to collect the default judgment.

     

    24.  According to publicly available information my circumstances are far from being unique. The industry’s persistent failure to use correct and current addresses results in an unnecessary burden for individuals and the justice system across the country.

     

    CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES 13.3

    25.  In the alternative, I submit that CPR 13.3 applies and there are very good reasons to set aside this claim. I have good prospects of defending a claim, if served with one, however I have seen no evidence, basis, nor detailed particulars of claim, and the Claimant should be required to file afresh if they believe they have a cause of action.

     

    26.  If filed afresh I would anticipate a defence including submissions on:

     

    a.    The Claimant failed to meet the Notice to Keeper obligations of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012

    b.    Lack of adequate notice of the parking charge on clear signage, as acknowledged by the Supreme Court in ParkingEye Limited v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67

    c.     Putting Claimant to strict proof on evidence of landowner authority or a legal contract, as required by the BPA Code of Practice

     

    NO SERVICE WITHIN 4 MONTHS OF ISSUE

    27.  Given that more than 4 months has passed from issue of proceedings and service of the claim was defective (as it was never served) I submit that this particular claim is dead and the period for service cannot be extended by this application process. I have no details of this claim beyond the very brief particulars, therefore, if the Claimant believes there is a cause of action then the correct procedure would be to file a claim afresh and to the right address, after furnishing me with the information required under the pre-action protocol for debt claims. This should be issued to my correct address for service which is XX.

     

    28.  There are several authorities for this, including the judgment in Boxwood [2021] EWHC 947 (TCC), which is a reminder of the strictness of the requirements of CPR 7.6 and how difficult it is to use other parts of the Civil Procedure Rules to rectify a failure to serve the claim form within the requisite period: “A claimant is not entitled to rely on the wide, general powers under CPR 3.10 or CPR 3.9 to circumvent the specific conditions set out in CPR 7.6(3) for extending the period for service of a claim form.”

     

    29.  In Vinos v Marks & Spencer plc [2000] EWCA Civ B526 the Court of Appeal considered whether any extension of time should be granted under CPR 7.6 in circumstances where the defendant had been notified of the issue of a claim form but the claim form had not been served within four months as required by CPR 7.5 and the application was made after expiry of that period. The court refused to grant relief on the basis that it did not have power to do so.


    INADEQUATE PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

    30.  In the alternative I submit that there is now a persuasive Appeal judgment relating to similar particulars of claim and the same Claimant, which supports striking out the claim. The Claimant has made little attempt to comply with the Practice Direction instead utilising unspecific, auto-fill wording for their particulars of claim.

     

    31.  In Civil Enforcement Limited v Chan (Ref. E7GM9W44) this same Claimant was found to have failed to comply with CPR 16.4(1)(e) and Practice Direction Part 16.7.5 through inadequate particulars of claim. On 15th August 2023, in the cited case, HHJ Murch held that 'the particulars of the claim as filed and served did not set out the conduct which amounted to the breach in reliance upon which the claimant would be able to bring a claim for breach of contract'. The same is true in this case and in view of the Chan judgment (transcript below) the Court should strike out the claim, using its powers pursuant to CPR 3.4.

    [Chan judgment inserted]

     

    COSTS

    1.    Considering the above, I was unable to defend this claim. I believe that the default judgment against me was issued incorrectly and thus should be set aside.

     

    2.    I ask the Court:

     

    a.    to order the reimbursement of the fee of £275 from the Claimant should this application successfully see the claim struck out, or in the alternative

     

    b.    if the claim is not struck out, to Order that the Claimant serve full particulars and evidence of the term, photographs of the signage and to specify the alleged breach and basis for alleged liability, with the application and hearing attendance costs being reserved, and that in the event of discontinuance after the judgment is set aside, the Claimant must reimburse (within 7 days of the date of discontinuance) the Defendant's costs as they stand after the first hearing 

     

    Statement of Truth

    I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against a person who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

     

    Signed __________________

    Date ____________________



    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


    DRAFT ORDER

    CLAIM No: XXXX

    BETWEEN:

    CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LIMITED (Claimant)

    -- and --

    XX (Defendant)

     

    UPON reading the defendant’s application dated XX January 2024

     

    IT IS ORDERED THAT:

     

    1. The default judgment dated XX August 2023 be set aside.

     

    2. The claim is hereby struck out due to the claim form having not been served within 4 months of issue.

    OR

    The claim is hereby struck out due to the Claimant's failure to particularise the contractual term relied upon or the alleged breach, this being the same Claimant and inadequate Particulars of Claim as seen in Civil Enforcement v Chan (a persuasive recent appeal relating to a mirror image CCJ set aside case)

     

    3. The Claimant do pay the Defendant’s costs of this application of £275 on an indemnity basis.

  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,354 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 6 January 2024 at 2:01PM
    I think move this section up much higher:

    INADEQUATE PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

    and don't 'insert' the Chan transcript into a WS.  Instead attach it as a readable exhibit or even better, use this document of several strike ours started with Chan, by  @Le_Kirk

    This link shows the full 'images of strike outs' document (adjusted 03/01/24): -
    Judgments
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  • Good afternoon everyone. I have finally been given a court hearing on 20th August so beginning to make my preparations.

    I have also received the generic letter from CEL offering to consent to the set aside if I pay the original £60 PCN and £35 legal fees. They claim they would have made a similar offer if I had contacted them prior to applying to the court. They have also asked me to confirm my acceptance to this in writing without offering an email or postal address.

    I have only had contact with the bailiffs who continue to send me autoreminders to pay.

    In light of the above is the standing advice still to go to the hearing and ask for set aside plus costs?

    Is there any advice thread on what specifically to take to your county court hearing? Do I need to provide bundles for CEL and the judge? I looked in the newbies thread but couldn't see anything specifically covering this situation?
  • Le_Kirk
    Le_Kirk Posts: 24,481 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    In your notice of hearing are there any instructions as to what to provide, to whom and by when?  As this is a set-aside, presumably you have already submitted a witness statement.  It is advised that you also have a defence "in your back pocket" in case the judge asks.
  • Gr1pr
    Gr1pr Posts: 8,111 Forumite
    1,000 Posts First Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper
    edited 17 July 2024 at 10:16AM
    FYI

    You should be looking at lengthy recent set aside thread's over the last year and follow what they did, or are doing, you are definitely not the first person or the only person going through the set aside process, so find ongoing and concluded cases over the last 18 months and study them. The search function may assist you in this , it usually does 

    Dont expect the newbies thread to be a Bible about set asides, or court cases, it's a resource that started out over a decade ago helping people through parking charge notices, not court battles . Over 95% of the threads were about parking, now its nearly always Court claims and contractual issues 

    The thing I learned on here years ago was, its all been discussed at some point, people are ahead of you in any saga, its all here somewhere, research is the key, looking for similar cases and studying them and adapting what you find , bearing in mind that possibly 98% of the people who come here don't have a CCJ and haven't tried to get a set aside and win the original case. Finding winning sagas helps those in need 

    The newbies sticky thread in announcements has half a dozen prime examples 

    There is no quick fix, you get out of it what you put into it, thats my take on it 
  • @PintofTapWater
    How did the hearing go? I am interested to know as I have just received my own hearing date and I am really interested to know how you proceeded and what the outcome was? Also do you have any advice?
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