Bristol Airport NTK - 104) Stopping to Pick-Up/Drop Off In a Restricted Zone

RRTechie

1505grandad said:

All your justifiable concerns/feelings should be spelled out to your MP   -  ask them to contact the relevant government dept. encouraging them to complete the stalled Private Parking Code of Practice which hopefully will damped down this unregulated scam industry.

My MP doesn't give a damn...I emailed him multiple times to support me in this issue with multiple chases and he never replied just auto responses of acknowledgement. He has always been useless...I have tried requesting his support before.

Ralph-y

Name ? just in case I am able to vote for him/her

RRTechie

Ralph-y said:

Name ? just in case I am able to vote for him/her

James Gray. He may now no longer be my MP...fingers crossed!

Castle

RRTechie said:

Ralph-y said:

Name ? just in case I am able to vote for him/her

James Gray. He may now no longer be my MP...fingers crossed!

"Kicked out" in July 2024 by the Liberal Democrats.

Imnotpaying

Fruitcake said:

Imnotpaying said:

Thanks, @Fruitcake.  That's very helpful.  I can't wait to see your Court Report.

I assume one of the pages/sections missing from the unredacted contract was Schedule 1? In the original contract, this specifies in detail for which contraventions VCS can issue penalty notices, and specifically does not include "Code 104 STOPPING TO PICKUP/DROP OFF IN A RESTRICTED ZONE". Knowing VCS' level of competence, I wonder if this Schedule 1 was pasted into the new contract unchanged and that might be why they have refused to supply me with a copy on the grounds that "we have deemed the request to be disproportionate and/or not relevant to the substantive issues in dispute".  

I would not dispute your theory. Unfortunately, as you will see in the court report, the judge gave little import to the contents/terms of the contract, or its omissions, whereas another judge might have done so.
Put it in your back pocket anyway, and perhaps don't choose Swindon court lest you have the same claimant's rep' or the same judge.

At least the judge's decision in this case is not binding.

Judge bingo, ain't it?

Very comprehensive but not quite what we were hoping for.... Thanks so much for all the trouble you've taken.  I'm sure we all appreciate it.

Yes, you're right about the bingo/roulette, but I've acted in cases like this before, so I know it's a gamble.  I definitely won't be having my case heard at Swindon.  And I'll be asking for ALL CCTV footage of my vehicle relating to the PCN, because the stills they sent me were all showing a green light.  When is the best time to do that?  

RRTechie

Imnotpaying said:

Fruitcake said:

Imnotpaying said:

Thanks, @Fruitcake.  That's very helpful.  I can't wait to see your Court Report.

I assume one of the pages/sections missing from the unredacted contract was Schedule 1? In the original contract, this specifies in detail for which contraventions VCS can issue penalty notices, and specifically does not include "Code 104 STOPPING TO PICKUP/DROP OFF IN A RESTRICTED ZONE". Knowing VCS' level of competence, I wonder if this Schedule 1 was pasted into the new contract unchanged and that might be why they have refused to supply me with a copy on the grounds that "we have deemed the request to be disproportionate and/or not relevant to the substantive issues in dispute".  

I would not dispute your theory. Unfortunately, as you will see in the court report, the judge gave little import to the contents/terms of the contract, or its omissions, whereas another judge might have done so.
Put it in your back pocket anyway, and perhaps don't choose Swindon court lest you have the same claimant's rep' or the same judge.

At least the judge's decision in this case is not binding.

Judge bingo, ain't it?

Very comprehensive but not quite what we were hoping for.... Thanks so much for all the trouble you've taken.  I'm sure we all appreciate it.

Yes, you're right about the bingo/roulette, but I've acted in cases like this before, so I know it's a gamble.  I definitely won't be having my case heard at Swindon.  And I'll be asking for ALL CCTV footage of my vehicle relating to the PCN, because the stills they sent me were all showing a green light.  When is the best time to do that?  

I requested all their footage...in effect this is what a SAR is supposed to provide but you are at the mercy of their honesty and whether the judge sees fit to take that footage into account. The judge I had did not even consider that they may have omitted 'approaching' evidence and discarded the notion out of hand.

A big learning curve for me...I'll never go through this again...life is just too short.

BikingBud

RRTechie said:

Thank you @Fruitcake and all at the forum for all your support, very much appreciated...especially @Fruitcake.

Okay, so now my final conclusion...

Unfortunately if there is ever a next time, I will just pay up and recommend those without an Absolute cut and dried case to do the same. Yes I know this is not 'fighting the good fight' but it just isn't worth the stress, hassle and grief. I say this coming from a very tough exercise and sports competition background and being a technical consultant by trade...so gawd knows the stress others go through and the toll it takes on their well being.

The process was excessively protracted (CNs dated 12/12/2023 and 17/12/2023), took a crazy amount of my time (And Fruitcake's) and a crazy amount of my head space.

Please do bring this to the attention of your MP,

I take it from your name you work for Rolls and I understand entirely that you feel competent with complex technical arguments and possibly developing compelling and robust safety focussed arguments, I operate in that space daily. But your thoughts that this whole charade is a lottery, it is a scam of epic proportions is fully understood. It has no logic and is entirely about pressurising and bullying people into paying so as to get a quiet life but morally we should not allow this to continue.

I understand this is more effort and you want to put it all behind you but I have a draft here - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6593026/letter-to-your-mp/p1 that you might wish to develop for your own situation. 

There was a thread where I considered that a normative sum of £20 would assure the cash flow, too much hassle to fight, but I feel the greed of the scammers needs to be challenged and the golden goose of parking charge notices need to be culled. 

Thanks for your efforts, it has progressed the understanding of so many by so much.

Many thanks also to @Fruitcake for the support to @RRTechie and for being a local champ for Bristol airport victims.

Fruitcake

BikingBud said:

RRTechie said:

Thank you @Fruitcake and all at the forum for all your support, very much appreciated...especially @Fruitcake.

Okay, so now my final conclusion...

Unfortunately if there is ever a next time, I will just pay up and recommend those without an Absolute cut and dried case to do the same. Yes I know this is not 'fighting the good fight' but it just isn't worth the stress, hassle and grief. I say this coming from a very tough exercise and sports competition background and being a technical consultant by trade...so gawd knows the stress others go through and the toll it takes on their well being.

The process was excessively protracted (CNs dated 12/12/2023 and 17/12/2023), took a crazy amount of my time (And Fruitcake's) and a crazy amount of my head space.

Please do bring this to the attention of your MP,

I take it from your name you work for Rolls and I understand entirely that you feel competent with complex technical arguments and possibly developing compelling and robust safety focussed arguments, I operate in that space daily. But your thoughts that this whole charade is a lottery, it is a scam of epic proportions is fully understood. It has no logic and is entirely about pressurising and bullying people into paying so as to get a quiet life but morally we should not allow this to continue.

I understand this is more effort and you want to put it all behind you but I have a draft here - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6593026/letter-to-your-mp/p1 that you might wish to develop for your own situation. 

There was a thread where I considered that a normative sum of £20 would assure the cash flow, too much hassle to fight, but I feel the greed of the scammers needs to be challenged and the golden goose of parking charge notices need to be culled. 

Thanks for your efforts, it has progressed the understanding of so many by so much.

Many thanks also to @Fruitcake for the support to @RRTechie and for being a local champ for Bristol airport victims.

I made the same incorrect assumption, but I can confirm that the OP does not work for Rolls.

RRTechie

BikingBud said:

RRTechie said:

Thank you @Fruitcake and all at the forum for all your support, very much appreciated...especially @Fruitcake.

Okay, so now my final conclusion...

Unfortunately if there is ever a next time, I will just pay up and recommend those without an Absolute cut and dried case to do the same. Yes I know this is not 'fighting the good fight' but it just isn't worth the stress, hassle and grief. I say this coming from a very tough exercise and sports competition background and being a technical consultant by trade...so gawd knows the stress others go through and the toll it takes on their well being.

The process was excessively protracted (CNs dated 12/12/2023 and 17/12/2023), took a crazy amount of my time (And Fruitcake's) and a crazy amount of my head space.

Please do bring this to the attention of your MP,

I take it from your name you work for Rolls and I understand entirely that you feel competent with complex technical arguments and possibly developing compelling and robust safety focussed arguments, I operate in that space daily. But your thoughts that this whole charade is a lottery, it is a scam of epic proportions is fully understood. It has no logic and is entirely about pressurising and bullying people into paying so as to get a quiet life but morally we should not allow this to continue.

I understand this is more effort and you want to put it all behind you but I have a draft here - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6593026/letter-to-your-mp/p1 that you might wish to develop for your own situation. 

There was a thread where I considered that a normative sum of £20 would assure the cash flow, too much hassle to fight, but I feel the greed of the scammers needs to be challenged and the golden goose of parking charge notices need to be culled. 

Thanks for your efforts, it has progressed the understanding of so many by so much.

Many thanks also to @Fruitcake for the support to @RRTechie and for being a local champ for Bristol airport victims.

No the RR in my name relates to the ID of a YT Supercar channel that I run with my son who is a professional filmmaker. I can mention this now that the PCN fiasco is done with and this cannot impact my case if the claimant saw it. 

Imnotpaying

RRTechie said:

Imnotpaying said:

Fruitcake said:

Imnotpaying said:

Thanks, @Fruitcake.  That's very helpful.  I can't wait to see your Court Report.

I assume one of the pages/sections missing from the unredacted contract was Schedule 1? In the original contract, this specifies in detail for which contraventions VCS can issue penalty notices, and specifically does not include "Code 104 STOPPING TO PICKUP/DROP OFF IN A RESTRICTED ZONE". Knowing VCS' level of competence, I wonder if this Schedule 1 was pasted into the new contract unchanged and that might be why they have refused to supply me with a copy on the grounds that "we have deemed the request to be disproportionate and/or not relevant to the substantive issues in dispute".  

I would not dispute your theory. Unfortunately, as you will see in the court report, the judge gave little import to the contents/terms of the contract, or its omissions, whereas another judge might have done so.
Put it in your back pocket anyway, and perhaps don't choose Swindon court lest you have the same claimant's rep' or the same judge.

At least the judge's decision in this case is not binding.

Judge bingo, ain't it?

Very comprehensive but not quite what we were hoping for.... Thanks so much for all the trouble you've taken.  I'm sure we all appreciate it.

Yes, you're right about the bingo/roulette, but I've acted in cases like this before, so I know it's a gamble.  I definitely won't be having my case heard at Swindon.  And I'll be asking for ALL CCTV footage of my vehicle relating to the PCN, because the stills they sent me were all showing a green light.  When is the best time to do that?  

I requested all their footage...in effect this is what a SAR is supposed to provide but you are at the mercy of their honesty and whether the judge sees fit to take that footage into account. The judge I had did not even consider that they may have omitted 'approaching' evidence and discarded the notion out of hand.

A big learning curve for me...I'll never go through this again...life is just too short.

It seems to me you had a "less than optimum" judge.  It really does seem to be a lottery.