lodger's rights

Honeylife

markin said:

Honeylife said:

  Its not all totally weird, if you want privacy get a tenancy, If you give them exclusive use, even without a lock on the door they become a tenant.

 Emptying bins or changing sheets weekly is recommended!

With respect, Disagree!  It's a Licence to Occupy and unnecessary. I belong to a cohort of 6 Landladies, four of us going back 25 years renting out a room in our homes. None of us empty bins, or provide or change linen for regular lodgers.  Only Airbnb short-term weekly occupiers in the summer and then the charge is double per night for such a "cleaning service". 

This particular landlady thinks the lodger is her child and is still in "mum" mode.  The weirdest of all is washing your lodger's jeans,,, I mean really! Indicates a snooper! 

Emily_Joy

Honeylife said:

This particular landlady thinks the lodger is her child and is still in "mum" mode.  The weirdest of all is washing your lodger's jeans,,, I mean really! Indicates a snooper! 

The explanation for that (she washed other clothing as well) that she was saving water and electricity (and perhaps money, too) but doing my washing together with hers.

Honeylife

Emily_Joy said:

Honeylife said:

This particular landlady thinks the lodger is her child and is still in "mum" mode.  The weirdest of all is washing your lodger's jeans,,, I mean really! Indicates a snooper! 

The explanation for that (she washed other clothing as well) that she was saving water and electricity (and perhaps money, too) but doing my washing together with hers.

It's not normal Landlord behaviour!  Confirmation that she is still in mum mode!  Move out! Fast! I would never invade my lodgers' privacy like that. 

Emily_Joy

Honeylife said:

Emily_Joy said:

Honeylife said:

This particular landlady thinks the lodger is her child and is still in "mum" mode.  The weirdest of all is washing your lodger's jeans,,, I mean really! Indicates a snooper! 

The explanation for that (she washed other clothing as well) that she was saving water and electricity (and perhaps money, too) but doing my washing together with hers.

It's not normal Landlord behaviour!  Confirmation that she is still in mum mode!  Move out! Fast! I would never invade my lodgers' privacy like that. 

I really think we all can do with a bit of TLC and a little help with house keeping, but this was just too much. I eventually moved out - but the fact that I was unable protect my belongings from the stranger still has negative effect on my wellbeing.

Emily_Joy

Following some very sound advice here, I am now looking at lodger's agreement. Apparently the landlord is using the standard one from SpareRoom. There is one point that looks a bit worrying to me. It says throughout the document, that the landlord has unrestricted access to the room:

(a) the Licensor retains control and possession of the Room and the remainder of the Property and the Licensee has no right to exclude the Licensor from the Room or remainder of the Property;
(b) the Licensor is entitled to retain keys for the Room and the Property, and the Licensor and any persons authorised by the Licensor may exercise the right to use these keys and enter the Room and the Property at any time.

However, then point 7 reads: 

Subject to clause 7.2, the Licensor is not liable for:

(a) the death of, or injury to, the Licensee or visitors to the Property; or
(b) damage to, or theft of, any possessions of the Licensee or the Licensee's invitees to the Property;
(c) any losses, claims, demands, actions, proceedings, damages, costs or expenses or other liability incurred by the Licensee or the Licensee's invitees to the Property in the exercise or purported exercise of the rights granted by clause 2; or

(d) the acts or omissions of any other resident of the Property or their visitors.
Nothing in clause 7.1 shall limit or exclude the Licensor's liability for:
(a) death or personal injury or damage to property caused by negligence on the part of the Licensor or its agents; or
(b) any matter in respect of which it would be unlawful for the Licensor to exclude or restrict liability.

Does this really mean that the Landlord can enter the room any time and to do whatever they deem necessary and to take whatever they want? (e.g. my jeans and put them in the washing machine?)... Does this mean that if they cause accidental damage to my belongings (e.g. break my mug, destroy £ notes in the jeans' pockets through washing) cause rain damage to my papers by opening the window, etc) there is absolutely nothing I can do?

propertyrental

If the landlord was excluded from the room or denied the key to a lock on the room door, the licencee could be deemed to be a tenant, with all the legal rights granted by the Housing Act.

The contract is explicitly ensuring this is not the case.

km1500

yes - that is the difference between being a lodger and a tenant.

Honeylife

Emily_Joy said:

Following some very sound advice here, I am now looking at lodger's agreement. Apparently the landlord is using the standard one from SpareRoom. There is one point that looks a bit worrying to me. It says throughout the document, that the landlord has unrestricted access to the room:

(a) the Licensor retains control and possession of the Room and the remainder of the Property and the Licensee has no right to exclude the Licensor from the Room or remainder of the Property;
(b) the Licensor is entitled to retain keys for the Room and the Property, and the Licensor and any persons authorised by the Licensor may exercise the right to use these keys and enter the Room and the Property at any time.

However, then point 7 reads: 

Subject to clause 7.2, the Licensor is not liable for:

(a) the death of, or injury to, the Licensee or visitors to the Property; or
(b) damage to, or theft of, any possessions of the Licensee or the Licensee's invitees to the Property;
(c) any losses, claims, demands, actions, proceedings, damages, costs or expenses or other liability incurred by the Licensee or the Licensee's invitees to the Property in the exercise or purported exercise of the rights granted by clause 2; or

(d) the acts or omissions of any other resident of the Property or their visitors.
Nothing in clause 7.1 shall limit or exclude the Licensor's liability for:
(a) death or personal injury or damage to property caused by negligence on the part of the Licensor or its agents; or
(b) any matter in respect of which it would be unlawful for the Licensor to exclude or restrict liability.

Does this really mean that the Landlord can enter the room any time and to do whatever they deem necessary and to take whatever they want? (e.g. my jeans and put them in the washing machine?)... Does this mean that if they cause accidental damage to my belongings (e.g. break my mug, destroy £ notes in the jeans' pockets through washing) cause rain damage to my papers by opening the window, etc) there is absolutely nothing I can do?

Re The Keys 7.1:   Yes. It is a Licence to Occupy.  This is why many Resident Landlords do not have any locks on the doors, empty bins, change linen and clean rooms.  They are trying to avoid creating a Tenancy.  
However, the vast majority of Resident landlords can't be bothered with prowling around your room or offering cleaning services. Most are courteous, they will ask permission or give a warning if they have to enter your room when you are not in situ.  If I haven't asked before, I usually send a message, "Just ran into your room to close the window as it is raining, hope that's ok".   


Re Clause 7.2  I tell my Lodgers to get Student Insurance as I am not liable for their property within my property unless it is caused directly by my negligence. So as I see it if I opened the window in the room without the expressed verbal permission of the Lodger and their property was damaged/destroyed e.g. rain, I the Resident Landlord would be liable to recompense the Lodger.  If I decided to run the vacuum in their room without their expressed permission and knocked over some item and broke it, I, the Resident Landlord would be liable. The keyword here is "negligence".  Re-read

 "Nothing in clause 7.1 shall limit or exclude the Licensor's liability for..."

Your Landlady was negligent in removing your jeans to wash without your permission and damaging your phone and the money within your jeans pockets.  She did not have your permission to touch your personal property! Yes, she can enter the room but NOT TOUCH YOUR PERSONAL BELONGINGS.

Yes, she can open the window, BUT if the window being open causes damage to your belongings she should compensate you, as even if you had your personal property insurance the Insurers may ask who opened the window. You should claim compensation from your Landlady.  [This is why I only close windows, with notification, never open them!]

Because You didn't have a signed Written Agreement it would be difficult for you to claim your Landlady as it would be a case of "He said, She said."

If anyone disagrees with me please feel free to add your advice/opinions for Emily_Joy.

Emily_Joy

As we are sliding towards buying a second property, I want to update this thread to make a record of the current landlord/lodger issues, maybe to remind myself later why I thought a second property is a good idea.... We moved in on a Wednesday, although the lodger agreement started the Sunday before.

(1) a week later after I moved in I got a message (via whatsapp) stating that the landlord needs to go into my room during the weekend to do <a list of 5 items>. Since Item 3 would left the whole room smelling of chlorine, I asked to do it during the weekday (they don't have a job), when I am out. One month later, none of the things on the list was done, so I did mold treatment myself.

(2) three weeks later I was informed that two friends will be staying in the lounge for a four days, so I cannot use it (it was in the lodger agreement that I can). It got a bit too cosy in a two bedroom house with one bathroom. 

(3) one day I received a message "please can you get some bread, milk, and cheddar cheese on your way home". I replied along the lines, that I have an important deadline the day after tomorrow, I am not doing any shopping for the next two days, and the day after tomorrow I am going away on business. So can bring all those things next week when I am back.

(4) another day I was woken up at 7:50am by pest control who needed to go into my room to access the loft and apparently check on squirrels. No notification of the visit from the landlord. 

Oh well, the joy of lodging!