From Frugal Foundations to Fortified Family Future

LotsOfTea

I hope you don't mind me chipping in with my thoughts too. I understand why you've wanted to delay the access to screens/gaming as it gets a very bad press but I would like to make the case for gaming actually being a good thing for children to partake in. Obviously not to the exclusion of everything else but as part of a range of activities. Gaming fosters problem-solving skills, co-ordination, co-operation and involves entering into imaginative worlds in the same way that books and films do. My DH has been an avid gamer since he's been a kid and it has not hindered him in any way. He's clever, kind and empathetic and ended up getting into IT as a career partly because of his interest in gaming. My DS also loves gaming but much as he sometimes says some of friends and classmates don't do anything else, I know that actually plenty of them also do sports, scouting, music, guides etc so can't possibly be only doing that. He's also an only child and it is a way of connecting with friends as a shared interest and as an activity they can do together. 

Not many parents take their kids on as many interesting outings as you do and what you see as lack of interest from teachers and other parents is probably people feeling a bit inadequate by comparison. We all feel like we're not doing a good enough job at parenting and from the outside you look like you're a 'perfect' parent doing all the extra-curricular stuff we feel we should be doing. 

With regard to LG feeling unhappy, I remember getting a couple of books on self-esteem and feeling good about yourself from The Works relatively cheaply when DS was a bit younger and going through similar wobbles (sorry I can't remember the names). If you have one near you it might be worth checking if they have anything useful. It's also worth checking out charity shops. I know Marcus Rashford 's You Are a Champion is seen in our local ones a lot as it sold very well so there are lots of copies around. I can't vouch for its contents not having read it but I know he takes his work with young people very seriously so it would certainly be worth looking at to see if it's useful. It might also be worth asking if there are any counselling services available through school. There was at DS's primary school but I don't know if it's universal. 

It's so hard seeing your child having a difficult time and not being able to wave a magic wand and fix it. And I agree, it's very hard to get across to small children that the other kids they see and think are happy and have everything might not actually be that happy either. If they told us all the real challenges of parenthood upfront no-one of us would ever have kids!

Moneywhizz

It is such a heartbreaking thing to see your child being unhappy and feeling that they are not one of the "in crowd" and there isn't anything you can do to fix it.  School life seems to be so difficult for children these days, I know my grandson just doesn't enjoy school and all the social situations that he just doesn't know how to handle. The only good thing is that he loves being outside and plays happily for hours with other children once school is out of the picture. Are there any children living around you that LG could build relationships with outside of school, without necessarily having to go to clubs and activities? You may find that they don't particularly enjoy gaming once they are actually allowed to try it, and I am sure you will not allow it to take over their life in any case. Would you consider homeschooling if things don't improve? Just trying to think outside of the box. 

Sunshine_girl2

Oh GP being a grandparent of an 11 yr old boy, I get the gaming thing I was horrified when my GS started using a gaming machine. However my DD his mum has rules around the use of said gaming and I have to say he very rarely complains about these rules. However he is very much an outdoor child , he loves playing football for his school and his weekend team. He likes forest school , and getting dirty. 

The school they go to encourages children to bring in certificates or anything to show something they have achieved outside of school . I hope you find a suitable balance for LG that resonates with your own principles, it is a difficult one. Be ready for the next one after gaming a mobile phone . 

teapot2

Also to chip in re gaming.  A family member with a 10yo was resistant to them doing any gaming but they are now allowed limited amounts of screen time which has encouraged friendships [in person] with others locally who also play.  Just for context, they also still enjoy history!, reading, swimming, camping, hill walking and spend a lot of time outside with family and are able to name lots of trees and plants plus their uses.  I guess what I'm saying is that its possible to include gaming in a range of interests and activities.  

Greying_Pilgrim

Thanks everyone - I'm going to go back and re-read your comments, so don't think that if I don't name check you in this post that I haven't read what you wrote - I just want to go back and really absorb what you've said ❤️

But the consensus of your posts seems to point towards 'allowing with boundaries' - which is the conclusion I've sort of arrived at.  I do feel a little bundled into it, but despite LG having actually gone behind our back 🫤 we have (I think) got an opportunity to have a fresh start and all work together to enable LG to have 'some gaming' but with boundaries.  I am cheered by your posts that tell me that your children/grandchildren do game, but they have other interests too - and LotsofTea - I literally said to DH this evening, "it wouldn't be so bad if it was 'one' thing that LG played, but they would as easily pick up a book, paint a picture, ride their bike, bat a ball about....etc etc'.  

I can't lie -  I hope that LG doesn't get enthralled by gaming, and continues with the other things that they do now - or new things, as they tire of certain activities, or move on to other things. But trying to avoid it, will just make things worse won't it - make it more "attractive".  And whoever it was who mentioned 'mobile phones' - yes, the question has already been posed - "what age do I have to be......".  Naturally there are peers who have phones already..........  

You will all laugh at me.  When LG came home from school, they got absorbed in an activity.  It was creative, imaginative - they got frustrated in trying to follow some guidelines, so went 'off piste', and ended up with something 'unique'.  I didn't ask them to do it, nor suggest that was how they filled their time before club.  They didn't whine or moan about computers, and we did have a nice discussion about the school day.  

If we can achieve 'balance' with gaming, I think I will be content.

Thanks everyone - you've been a great help.  I'm going back for another read.  

Greying X

Blackcats

GP - What a thoughtful and balanced conversation you have initiated.

I think that balance between activities and moderation will be the key things as you guide LG gently through this.

One of my grandsons (age 10) is really interested in war hammer which sounds horrific to my old ears but has sparked his interest in model making and he is constantly reading about Greek and Norse mythology.  I don't claim to understand any of it but there is a war 🔨 club at school which a teacher runs using resources from the WH foundation which can eventually contribute to Duke of Edinburgh awards.  So perhaps gaming can be an add on to other interests or spark new interests.  

Self esteem is so fragile but hopefully it can be built up again and you and your DH are such thoughtful parents that you will be there to encourage and help.  

As an aside, I always disliked the last half term of the school year - tetchy, tired kids, teachers and many parents! (I'm not including you as a tetchy parent).  My DD just showed me some snippets from a parents' WhatsApp group - my goodness there's a lot of stressy conversations about sports day, sun block and hats 🙀.  

Cheery_Daff

Oh Greying, have a hug (((()))))

I don't know much about raising kids. But my teenage nephews are all into gaming, and warhammer, and all rub along nicely with the world 😊 They are polite and lovely boys and a credit to my sister. They don't have much in the way of other interests, but they don't spend all their time gaming either. And they do interact with their buddies - they have virtual reality headsets and use them to chat with school chums while battling whatever goblins we can't see in the real world 😂 I have plenty of adult pals who are into gaming as a bit of an escape too (and still into plenty of other things)

Not my thing... but I'd be lying if I said I never spent too much time on the Internet, or absorbed in some other unproductive activity that undoubtedly someone else disapproved of 😬

I know LG is younger, and gosh it must be so hard to make decisions. You're doing your best lass, and LG will grow up knowing that, even if they don't always agree with all your decisions right now! 

EssexHebridean

Some really great posts here - isn’t this place wonderful for letting us see all manner of different (yet often so similar) viewpoints on a situation.  The Steiner School suggestion is an excellent one - oldest Nephew and niece went to one for a while and absolutely thrived, although ai recall the rest of the family thought it was a bit “out there” everyone rapidly got used to the idea once they saw how settled the kids were. I have a feeling that though there are a fair number of them scattered around the south if the country, there are rather less further north. 

I think one thing I’ve seen a lot of friends and family struggling with is the leaning towards expecting their kids/grandkids to be like they were as children, and almost a sense of disappointment if that turns out to be not quite the case. Of course things have changed massively since I was LG’s sort of age, and so any child around now would naturally do very different things because some of the things we did then aren’t so accessible now, and also thr world has evolved and so now there are so many different options. 

Great point from Lotsoftea about how you and Mr Greying may be seen as parents too - although you don’t imagine that others see the lifestyle you lead with LG as in any way aspirational, I bet there are a huge amount of time-poor parents who do indeed view you with a fair bit of envy as they try to juggle childcare, both having full time jobs and feeling as though their leisure time is more about housework and essential stuff than being able to have fun. That’s the thing with life through another person’s lens isn’t it - they don’t see the sacrifices you make to enable that lifestyle, just that from the outside you do indeed appear to be the parents they “ought” to be. 😘

Greying_Pilgrim

Good Afternoon MFW'rs

Lovely sunny day with us.  Little bit of washing out on the line and a new pair of trousers just getting a rinse through.  I prefer to wear 'walking' style trousers for everyday, and I only have 3 pairs - 2 are from pre-LG when I fitted into smaller clothes!  And the pair that I favour the most, I think I bought just after I had LG in the (misguided) hope that I would lose sufficient baby weight and be able to fit into them again - how wrong I was!  Still, they have been worn to death (and the button sewn on a gazillion times because it 'popped' 😔And you can read a newspaper through the fabric now, so time to purchase new.  To be fair, if I can get as much wear out of the new ones, as the old, I will be happy. 

I've read through and digested your comments - and again, thank you for taking the time to post on my thread - it's super appreciated.  

Bearing in mind that the forum attracts fantastically knowledgeable, helpful, kind, diverse members - I think there is a....... perhaps not 'common core', but I think we probably come at things from a similar perspective.  How many times have we seen the phrase, "I say on here, what I can't discuss with anyone in RL" - and it's not necessarily about anonymity, it's about folks not having a similar mindset, about eg paying off a mortgage, or snowballing debt etc.  But I thought, looking at your comments, in addition to the 'balance' and 'there's room for activities and  gaming' messages, I felt that you were telling me that family 'values' or 'morals' or 'rules' or 'expectations' played a part in achieving the balance.  Irrespective of what each family make-up is, there seemed to be a common expression of 'boundaries' are set (and the follow-up pleasing-to-hear sentence, 'and are adhered to by the young people').  Clearly your families have 'entered into' the world of gaming on something like their 'own terms'.  And it seemed that discussion and negotiation was part of that - which is great because we try to do that already with our little family - not everything has to be "because I say so".  LG often comes up with some good ideas, and thoughts, and i hope if you asked them, they would say their opinion mattered, and they felt they could influence what we did as a family.  Although please don't ask them after a discussion about "why do I have to go to school? - because I've run out of answers other than 'the government says you have to' 😂

Humdinger - I couldn't think of any mention of Steiner - nor Montessori - schools within our locale, so I looked into it.  Surprisingly there is a Steiner school, located in a nearby county, unfortunately a little too far for a daily commute and although they do boarding, that's not an avenue we would want to go down at the moment,  But it was worth looking into - as I wasn't aware of whether there were any 'locally' and I wasn't aware of the fee structure, which is on a par with independent schools.  It's not something we could afford, but if you don't investigate, you don't know, do you?  Thanks for mentioning it - it wasn't on my radar.

LotsofTea - Thank you for showing a different perspective.  And yes, I agree about the potential for learning from technology.  Although it was interesting LG was trying to make a pitch for an 'eye-patch' 😉 the other day, and they listed lots of functions, including 'it can teach you how to draw'....🤔  I rather thought that first and foremost, drawing was about 'looking', but my dear kiddo had a point 😁  But if you couple your comment with Blackcats mentioning about 'warhammer', then yes, it is interesting how 'play' can be expanded in a fun, yet educational way.  Your point about an only child having (ready made) 'someone to play with' is entirely valid too.  I would be lying if I said I wasn't worried about who choses to (sometimes) hide behind avatars, but that's a concern for many, not just me.  I have to say, I'm not sure the other parents (or indeed LG's classmates) see us as 'perfect parents'.  I'm really not sure that our community is set up like that.  The prevailing thought is 'keeping up with the Jones' and SM has just made that more of a focus.  So I'm not sure trips to; motte & bailey's, the seaside, a NT property, a reservoir, a museum, a vintage car rally etc etc etc holds much sway.  From conversations I've overheard, the cache comes from holidaying in exotic places (for a main holiday), trips to 'somewhere hot' during the half-terms etc, staying overnight at a theme park in an on-site hotel, doing something exotic (and expensive) as an activity - it wasn't just horse riding, it was horse riding through palace grounds, at sunset, with a champagne bar and David Broome (one for the oldies 😉) giving riding tips for free, horse riding 😉.  I'm happy to be proved wrong, but LG mentioned that if they have done 'I went to X at the weekend' type things, the teacher has asked for questions, and no-one asks anything.  Which makes me think actually we're probably going to really boring places by modern standards 😂  PS - parenthood is a pretty effective contra cep tive device 😂

Moneywhiiz - I wish all that was required for home-schooling was for me to become WAY more patient, but in reality, the thing that I like most about 'formal' education models is the socialisation perspective.  I know we're not getting a great deal out of it, but as an only child with aged parents and no cousins of a similar age, school does at least let LG mingle with children of similar ages.  There is a HS network in Greying Town.  I don't know a great deal about it, but I get the impression that there aren't 'lots' of children of all ages (iyswim).  I've never wanted LG to be a 'mini-me' nor look to me for all the answers (heck - what do I know?), so I like that there are opportunities for LG to mix with others - albeit that that isn't always successful.  But it is the way of the world 🫤

Sunshine_girl2 - I like that your GS listens to his mum and keeps to the rules to keep his gaming.  That's ideal.  I thought LG's school was supportive of 'outside endeavours', but they've got a bit cliquey about it.  When LG took in something that had actually required  a lot of effort, and was actually quite special, a TA was dismissive and accused LG of being 'babyish' wanting to show the class.  Luckily I had mentioned the endeavour to the deputy head, and they made far more of a fuss, and gave LG a head teacher's award (only a sticker, and they're given out like confetti, but still.....).  And no, the TA is no longer working at the school - but you do not want to know what they are doing instead 😱

Thanks teapot2 - if we can get, and stay at 'balance' I'd be a happy bunny.  LG getting bored of gaming and moving on to other RL activities is probably asking for toooooo much....... but I can dream, can't I?  😂

Blackcats - that is really interesting about the link between warhammer and DofE.  How blooming forward thinking for DofE to make the connection too!  Take the activity and goals to "where" the participants are "at" is the answer to that, I guess.  I have to say - and I know that people would still take the p**, but why on earth the last half term before the hols can't be designated "free school" or "social school" or "activities school" and take the time off curriculum, but also allow people to take holidays in June/July, I do not know.  Keep the schools open, keep the 'structure' for those that need/want it, but free up the workload to contribute to personal development and take the emphasis off "book learning".  LG's school have never done anything in the last few weeks of term that have made me think "I'm so glad we didn't miss that essential bit of learning 🙄".

Cheery - hug gratefully accepted - Thank You 😁Yeah, you're right, I can try to justify my time online as 'research' or 'admin' or 'purchasing things for the home', but in reality............. 😔

EH - I think if there was a Steiner school locally, a) it would be oversubscribed, and b) I think it would have been a good fit for LG.  I'm glad LG isn't like me or DH - and that they have got some good qualities that are a blend of our personalities, and they're also developing their own style.  DH got pushed into doing things when he was little because his parents would have wanted to do it when they were little, and no notice was taken of DH's wishes, or his personality type (shy).  I wanted to do things, but a) we couldn't afford much and b) my mum was not very supportive about taking us to clubs - say ballet, or scouts or guides or whatever.  I did get to go to Brownies, but it was run by two 'old dears' (actually, they weren't that old, but they had very fixed ideas about children, and were only really doing it to be 'seen' to be doing it - they were church wardens, and hospital car drivers too - you know the drill). Brownies was deathly boring - but when I wanted to go to guides (run by a younger, more active leadership), my mum refused to let me, "because you didn't stick at Brownies" 🙄

So whilst we've been "supportive" of LG trying things out, they really have had say in which way they want to go.  I'm glad that they've learnt to swim - both my parents weren't swimmers and I only got lessons at school.  If you didn't learn at school (because there was no actual 'training'), you didn't learn swimming - that was it.  Now at least there is a National Curriculum target for all children to swim 50m before they leave school.  So swimming lessons at school - although fleeting and 'whole class' in nature - do now at least include a smidgen more 'teaching' than they did when I was at school.  Swimming is a good life skill to have.  

I don't know if other parents are envious of us - no-one has ever said something like that to our face.  I just think our outlooks are different - We think "10 day trips to museums/places of interest/a bike trail" in the holidays, other people may think "1 week in the costa del sunshine".  Neither is better, just different.  I'd never begrudge someone a week at costa del sunshine, but neither would I necessarily seek it out myself (nor would DH), but then whether we should do it to give LG the experience is quite another matter.........  

I went into Greying Town this morning as I had to get some birthday cards for LG's chums.  I had vague idea of what designs I was looking for (based on their current likes/interests), but I ended up getting one that will appeal to the one child's sense of humour, and one that is just 'in keeping' with that child's (wider) interests.  I was gobsmacked that cards in 'the high street newsagents' that is currently for sale, seem to average £3.75 😱 I was pleasantly surprised that a card from a 'chi-chi', slightly alt, slightly hip, yoof retail outlet was only 40p dearer than one off a market stall (it was a nice card - honest!).
 
I also bought some dried basil, so need to add £1.18 to my grocery budget, as the TC hB had some basil in stock.

LG is off out to a burfday party this afternoon.  It's with the child who's parents always praise LG's behaviour on playdates.  I hope they have a super-fun time together, although one or two of the other guests are a bit.......... However, LG knows how to behave, so fingers crossed everyone has a good time and has lots of fun.

Greying X

Sunshine_girl2

GP I thought of you today in school assembly , people can bring their achievements in on a Friday morning assembly , when we have headteachers awards, saints of the week and sporting stars . Today brought in  were swimming certificates, athletic achievements and someone who had done some research on a topic over and above. I will admit some children bring in some bizarre things but they are all different aren't they ! 
I hope LG had a great time at the birthday party , don't get me started on them 😱.
By the way I don't work in a school, just volunteer on a Friday for reading and other things that get asked of me. Never want to see another phonics sheet again.