Incomplete National Insurance records and the problems getting info from HMRC or DWP

fearbeag

Has anyone else encountered this problem.... My wife who is already receiving her state pension requested her national insurance records in order to see if she was entitled to Home protection allowence (She found she was was for 83/84 and 84/85 when she was receiving child benefit for our three children.) However, her records commence from 1975/76  but she has worked from 1968 when she was fifteen so is missing seven years which impacts her state pension.She queried this with HMRC and DWP who simply referred her to each other. In fact HMRC told her their records dont go back further than 75/76. How can this be. she has been on the phone for over three hours and is losing the will to live. Can anyone offer any advice on how to progress as it would be much appreciated  

Teddie62

I have been fighting with both the DWP and HMRC over similar issues.
you can get all your records out of there archives. Believe me the errors recorded are unbelievable.
I registered a complaint it six months for the DWP to reach a decision and that was the following.
We have forecasted your SP on information provided by the HMRC .
Complaint forwarded to HMRC in January acknowledged in October and still ongoing investigation. Good luck.

Brie

My first thought was that she may not have been paying NI when she started working due to her young age.  And according to wikipedia (ok, not always the most reliable source) currently NI is paid from the age of 16.  In the 1960s I wouldn't be surprised if the minimum age was 18 or even 21.

There was certainly some changes made around 1975 which might account for the comment that there are no records.  Add to this if her wages were particularly low (often the case for younger workers and women) she may have not earned enough to contribute at all.  

National Insurance - Wikipedia

Marcon

fearbeag said:

Has anyone else encountered this problem.... My wife who is already receiving her state pension requested her national insurance records in order to see if she was entitled to Home protection allowence (She found she was was for 83/84 and 84/85 when she was receiving child benefit for our three children.) However, her records commence from 1975/76  but she has worked from 1968 when she was fifteen so is missing seven years which impacts her state pension.She queried this with HMRC and DWP who simply referred her to each other. In fact HMRC told her their records dont go back further than 75/76. How can this be. she has been on the phone for over three hours and is losing the will to live. Can anyone offer any advice on how to progress as it would be much appreciated  

They hold very limited info pre-1976 - record keeping then was heavily manual/paper based.s

Try a SAR for the years in question: https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/shortforms/form/DPU_SAR_NI?_ga=2.230026460.1544670040.1621021753-1315656139.1609178084

xylophone

https://www.accountancydaily.co/hmrc-guidance-obtaining-personal-nics-data

HMRC’s guidance states that individuals can make a SAR for information about their national insurance records from the 1975 to 1976 tax year onwards.

This is not a statement of National Insurance contributions, but it includes personal details, employers names, national insurance payments, and details of benefits claimed.

To get a SAR, individuals can apply online or in writing.  For written requests, taxpayers are required to confirm their identify by providing their full name, national insurance number, date of birth, address history for the last five years, and original signature (not required for online and email requests).

They will also need to detail which years they require the information for and give the reason why they want the information.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/hmrc-subject-access-request

When exactly did your wife reach State Pension Age?

molerat

All 3 accounts that I monitor state "Our records show you have x full years up to 5 April 1975".  Does her record not have anything like that right at the bottom of the list ?

How many full years does she have and when did she reach SPA ?

pinnks

molerat said:

All 3 accounts that I monitor state "Our records show you have x full years up to 5 April 1975".  Does her record not have anything like that right at the bottom of the list ?

How many full years does she have and when did she reach SPA ?

Neither mine, nor my wife's say anything like that but when you count the listed years and compare it with the the number of years shown at the top of the record it is clear that pre-1975/76 years exist but are not listed - this was confirmed by DWP a few years ago when I noticed it.

molerat

pinnks said:

molerat said:

All 3 accounts that I monitor state "Our records show you have x full years up to 5 April 1975".  Does her record not have anything like that right at the bottom of the list ?

How many full years does she have and when did she reach SPA ?

Neither mine, nor my wife's say anything like that but when you count the listed years and compare it with the the number of years shown at the top of the record it is clear that pre-1975/76 years exist but are not listed - this was confirmed by DWP a few years ago when I noticed it.

This what I see

fearbeag

Brie said:

My first thought was that she may not have been paying NI when she started working due to her young age.  And according to wikipedia (ok, not always the most reliable source) currently NI is paid from the age of 16.  In the 1960s I wouldn't be surprised if the minimum age was 18 or even 21.

There was certainly some changes made around 1975 which might account for the comment that there are no records.  Add to this if her wages were particularly low (often the case for younger workers and women) she may have not earned enough to contribute at all.  

National Insurance - Wikipedia

She was on quite good money certainly in 1971/72 working shift work in a cigarette factory. Whilst she was quite young when she started work at fifteen and was twenty three when the 76/77 records began  

fearbeag

xylophone said:

https://www.accountancydaily.co/hmrc-guidance-obtaining-personal-nics-data

HMRC’s guidance states that individuals can make a SAR for information about their national insurance records from the 1975 to 1976 tax year onwards.

This is not a statement of National Insurance contributions, but it includes personal details, employers names, national insurance payments, and details of benefits claimed.

To get a SAR, individuals can apply online or in writing.  For written requests, taxpayers are required to confirm their identify by providing their full name, national insurance number, date of birth, address history for the last five years, and original signature (not required for online and email requests).

They will also need to detail which years they require the information for and give the reason why they want the information.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/hmrc-subject-access-request

When exactly did your wife reach State Pension Age?

xylophone said:

https://www.accountancydaily.co/hmrc-guidance-obtaining-personal-nics-data

HMRC’s guidance states that individuals can make a SAR for information about their national insurance records from the 1975 to 1976 tax year onwards.

This is not a statement of National Insurance contributions, but it includes personal details, employers names, national insurance payments, and details of benefits claimed.

To get a SAR, individuals can apply online or in writing.  For written requests, taxpayers are required to confirm their identify by providing their full name, national insurance number, date of birth, address history for the last five years, and original signature (not required for online and email requests).

They will also need to detail which years they require the information for and give the reason why they want the information.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/hmrc-subject-access-request

When exactly did your wife reach State Pension Age?

xylophone said:

https://www.accountancydaily.co/hmrc-guidance-obtaining-personal-nics-data

HMRC’s guidance states that individuals can make a SAR for information about their national insurance records from the 1975 to 1976 tax year onwards.

This is not a statement of National Insurance contributions, but it includes personal details, employers names, national insurance payments, and details of benefits claimed.

To get a SAR, individuals can apply online or in writing.  For written requests, taxpayers are required to confirm their identify by providing their full name, national insurance number, date of birth, address history for the last five years, and original signature (not required for online and email requests).

They will also need to detail which years they require the information for and give the reason why they want the information.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/hmrc-subject-access-request

When exactly did your wife reach State Pension Age?

I think that when she reached pension age is part of the problem....I believe she reached pension in June 2017 just a month before her 64th birthday. She was part of that group of women who over an 18 month period quickly rose from a sixty year retirement age to a sixty five year retirement age. The rules changed in April 2017 so she is now part of the group of women who need 35 years contributions for a full state pension so it's a bit of a doubly whammy if years worked pre 1975 do not count  

fearbeag

molerat said:

All 3 accounts that I monitor state "Our records show you have x full years up to 5 April 1975".  Does her record not have anything like that right at the bottom of the list ?

How many full years does she have and when did she reach SPA ?

The letter from HMRC states that she has 26 qualifying years. However, when I count up the years which state  "payment not  needed" (21)  and "reduced rate" (8) it amounts to 29 years. To complicate it further, her current pension of £163.70 would indicate 28 years under the new system. She reached pension age in June 2017 a month before her 64th Birthday. There was no mention in her letter from HMRC about pre 1975 records