New lambda sensor required for Ford fiesta

cherry76

Fiesta 2003 in need of a replacement lambda sensor.  Any idea how much it will cost from local Ford dealer and whether it is worth repairing. The car is due for mot in June and it has already flagged so many advisories. Last year had to spend over £1500 for car car to pass mot and servicing. This is the AA report
Patrol found the following fault code/s:System : Engine control 1 - 07N / SIM 22U2510 - CAN data buses: CAN communication. Error Message : Communication error.P0137 - Lambda sensor (bank 1, sensor 2). Error Message : Signal too low.Req new lambda sensor bank 1 sensor 2Engine Oil Level Ok. Coolant Level Ok

It is an old car and my husband is elderly and drives short distances once or twice a week. Am trying to persuade him to give up driving. Cheaper to use taxi. Thanks

MattMattMattUK

I think that Sensor 2 is the post cat sensor, the upstream sensor can be changed relatively easily (one can do it oneself if mildly mechanically competent) but the downstream sensor is harder to access and will likely require a garage, or someone with correct kit and confident with cars to change. Cost for a garage would be around £150 I think, for a skilled mechanic it is a thirty minute job. 

cherry76 said:

It is an old car and my husband is elderly and drives short distances once or twice a week. Am trying to persuade him to give up driving. Cheaper to use taxi.

Many older people tend not to give up driving until they have an accident, or succession of accidents and even then still keep a car, but just never drive it. My dad kept a car taxed, MOT and insured for two years without driving it at all, it got driven once or twice a month by my mum to keep it ticking over instead of her driving her car, but my dad refused to give up having a car, I have seen plenty of other older men do the same as well. Those people have to come to the conclusion it is time to get rid of their car, if they ever do make it that far, of their own accord. 

molerat

Any idea how much it will cost from local Ford dealer

About 4 times the price from an independent garage.  Certainly not worth taking a car that age to the dealer, get it done at an indy.  Ford quoted me £75 for a suspension part, quality copy part £20.

cherry76

MattMattMattUK said:

I think that Sensor 2 is the post cat sensor, the upstream sensor can be changed relatively easily (one can do it oneself if mildly mechanically competent) but the downstream sensor is harder to access and will likely require a garage, or someone with correct kit and confident with cars to change. Cost for a garage would be around £150 I think, for a skilled mechanic it is a thirty minute job. 

cherry76 said:

It is an old car and my husband is elderly and drives short distances once or twice a week. Am trying to persuade him to give up driving. Cheaper to use taxi.

Many older people tend not to give up driving until they have an accident, or succession of accidents and even then still keep a car, but just never drive it. My dad kept a car taxed, MOT and insured for two years without driving it at all, it got driven once or twice a month by my mum to keep it ticking over instead of her driving her car, but my dad refused to give up having a car, I have seen plenty of other older men do the same as well. Those people have to come to the conclusion it is time to get rid of their car, if they ever do make it that far, of their own accord. 

Thank you for your post. Will contact Ford and see how much it will cost if it cost £300 or £400 it’s not worthy to repair. The AA said it is ok to drive but will not pass the MOT in June. If only I can persuade him to give up driving when the car fails the mot, it will be too expensive to repair. I will not let him buy another second one and he will not be able to do it on its own. Very old school, not computer literate and very set in own ways.

Mildly_Miffed

Lambdas are a consumable that require periodic replacement.

You don't say what engine the Fiesta is, but the part is likely to be about £40, and it's no more than an hour's labour to replace it.

baser999

cherry76 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

I think that Sensor 2 is the post cat sensor, the upstream sensor can be changed relatively easily (one can do it oneself if mildly mechanically competent) but the downstream sensor is harder to access and will likely require a garage, or someone with correct kit and confident with cars to change. Cost for a garage would be around £150 I think, for a skilled mechanic it is a thirty minute job. 

cherry76 said:

It is an old car and my husband is elderly and drives short distances once or twice a week. Am trying to persuade him to give up driving. Cheaper to use taxi.

Many older people tend not to give up driving until they have an accident, or succession of accidents and even then still keep a car, but just never drive it. My dad kept a car taxed, MOT and insured for two years without driving it at all, it got driven once or twice a month by my mum to keep it ticking over instead of her driving her car, but my dad refused to give up having a car, I have seen plenty of other older men do the same as well. Those people have to come to the conclusion it is time to get rid of their car, if they ever do make it that far, of their own accord. 

Thank you for your post. Will contact Ford and see how much it will cost if it cost £300 or £400 it’s not worthy to repair. The AA said it is ok to drive but will not pass the MOT in June. If only I can persuade him to give up driving when the car fails the mot, it will be too expensive to repair. I will not let him buy another second one and he will not be able to do it on its own. Very old school, not computer literate and very set in own ways.

As others have said, it’d be far cheaper to ask a local garage than a main dealer who’ll probably be looking at £100ph labour! 

Goudy

This might not be the sensor that is at fault.
There are a few reasons this code might flag and not all reasons point to a sensor fault.

MattMattMattUK is correct, Bank 1 Sensor 2 is the down stream or post catalytic convertor sensor.
Your engine only has one bank of cylinders with two sensors, pre Cat (sensor 1) and post Cat (sensor 2).

These Lambda sensors are somethings known as O2 sensors as they sniff for oxygen in the exhaust gas, the oxygen actually generates a small voltage within the sensor, which is then sent back to the cars computer.

The pre cat sensor will use that signal to alter the fuel ratio injected into the engine.

The post cat sensor you are having trouble with really only monitors the performance of the catalytic convertor.

It's comparing the signal between what goes in and what comes out of the Cat and detecting a low voltage signal coming out of the Cat.

Low voltages tend to mean it's sniffing too much oxygen in the exhaust.
As far as we know it's not complaining about what is going into the Cat, so it doesn't appear to be a more serious engine problem.

This could well be a fault with the O2 sensor or it's wiring harness, but that tends to produce a different code, an open circuit code.
The sensors self heat with a small heating element so they can start working faster. If the heating element fails, that can cause a similar issue but again you tend to get a different open circuit code.

But the sensor could be working just fine and it's actually sniffing too much oxygen.
An exhaust leak near the sensor would allow exhaust gas to escape and air to be drawn into the exhaust which will obviously effect the sensors signal when it comes to sniffing air, it would sniff too much and produce a low voltage signal.

It doesn't take a big leak in the exhaust to mess the signal voltage up and as your car is 2003, it's worth checking the condition of the exhaust first, particularly around the catalytic convertor.

The sensor is cheap enough, you can by a decent branded one for around £50 and with the correct tool to remove the old one, it's simple enough but it wouldn't fix the issue if that issue was an exhaust leak.

Take it to have it's exhaust checked first.

cherry76

need some advice pl, Ford wants to do a diagnostic check at £168 and take it from there. These are the advisories flagged last June brake pipe corroded covered in grease or other material near side rear. Brake pipe corroded covered in grease or other material offside rear. Coil spring corroded near side rear. Coil spring corroded offside rear. Power steering component has slight seepage from a component rack. Last year I paid £1070 for the repairs, mot and servicing. Given all the issues mentioned is it worth replacing sensor and most probably it will not pass mot in June. Considering the cars age and my husband is getting on  at 82. Am trying to persuade him to stop driving now the car is packing up. I just want to know whether it is safe to drive short distance approx six miles once a week until the mot expires in June. Would appreciate advise pl. I have asked Ford and he would not comment and said he will not accept the AA report he must do his own diagnostic test. The AA said it is ok to drive but replace it before mot as it will fail. Thanks

ontheroad1970

cherry76 said:

need some advice pl, Ford wants to do a diagnostic check at £168 and take it from there. These are the advisories flagged last June brake pipe corroded covered in grease or other material near side rear. Brake pipe corroded covered in grease or other material offside rear. Coil spring corroded near side rear. Coil spring corroded offside rear. Power steering component has slight seepage from a component rack. Last year I paid £1070 for the repairs, mot and servicing. Given all the issues mentioned is it worth replacing sensor and most probably it will not pass mot in June. Considering the cars age and my husband is getting on  at 82. Am trying to persuade him to stop driving now the car is packing up. I just want to know whether it is safe to drive short distance approx six miles once a week until the mot expires in June. Would appreciate advise pl. I have asked Ford and he would not comment and said he will not accept the AA report he must do his own diagnostic test. The AA said it is ok to drive but replace it before mot as it will fail. Thanks

Are you reading the responses you've already had? Considering the age of the car you shouldn't be taking it to a Ford franchised garage.  

WellKnownSid

cherry76 said:

need some advice pl, Ford wants to do a diagnostic check at £168 and take it from there. 

The car is beyond economic repair if you take it to a main dealer.  The £168 will be their hourly rate (that's relatively cheap these days) and their staff will be incentivised (i.e. get paid a bonus) to identify and sell as much work as possible.  Take it to an independent garage if you want to keep the car on the road for a reasonable price.  

Brake pipe corroded - luck of the draw, potential for the pipe to rupture at some point, only under very hard braking i.e. could easily fail at the next MoT.
Coil spring corroded.  Could snap at the next pothole you go over or give another couple of years of service.  Pot luck.
Slight seepage from rack.  Probably fine for now.

If it were me, I would run it as-is and then get Ford to quote for the MoT repairs in June - using that as a strong justification of 'it's now time to give up motoring'...

cherry76

Thank you for your good advice. Trying to tell the old man not to take it to Ford  and he is not listening. Got a quote from a garage for £167 seems reasonable enough. My intention if it fails the mot in June,  scrap it, such a shame it is a nice little car in very good condition. The AA patrol man reset it and strange enough the engine lights is now off. Thanks again, very much appreciated.