Final accounts

Bolt1234

I am sole executor for late Father.  Other siblings live abroad and have left the Executorship to me..  we are on very friendly terms and they have always left everything for me to do.  I agreed that I would run with Probate.  They have shown very little interest.  I offered weekly/monthly update calls during probate but there was no real interest in getting involved.  I did employ a solicitor and tried to get agreement to fund one but they basically told me to do whatever I needed to make my life easier.

Estate was worth over £1 m so we are not talking about insignificant amounts either.

Probate has been granted.

I have already distributed 70% of it and am waiting for bill from solicitor, then making the final payments.  Do I need to provide an itemised breakdown of every single spend over the last year.   I agreed with my Father and then with siblings that estate would cover my petrol costs as I didn’t live close to his care home.  I also ran his household accounts, was the single point of contact with care home etc.  

Basically is it a legal requirement of Probate to provide ALL spend?? I must stress neither sibling has asked for anything!  They are truly not interested but are very grateful with what I have done over the last 5 years.

I can of course do it but it’s going to take me blooming ages!

km1500

I think you should provide some indication of spend but you don't have to itemize every cup of coffee for example you could easily say 5K for incidentals or 5K for household accounts

if any of the beneficiarys want a breakdown you can deal with it if they ask for it

Bolt1234

KM - thank you.  Do I offer a final account breakdown as a legal requirement or do I wait for them to request it?  They honestly won’t because they are more than happy with how I invested Father’s money when he was alive.  We brought a significant amount of Business Relief shares from Triple Point and whilst we only got a couple of % interest overall it saved us about £450k in inheritance tax.  Siblings wouldn’t have had a clue with regards to anything like this and would probably have  just stuck it in to some current account paying no interest (no - I am not joking!)

Brie

Maybe I've misunderstood but it sounds like you and dad agreed he would fund certain things like your petrol while he was alive.  Maybe paid bits and pieces to do with managing his accounts, parking when doing his banking in town or going to the shops for his favourite whisky or whatever.  If that is the case then the bank statements leading up to the time of his death would show what money you were taking from his account for various things, transfer to your bank (petrol & parking), transfer to the care home for ongoing costs.  And all of that stopped when dad died so that's in the past and nothing to do with probate or estate.  

As executor you will have certain costs incurred that many recoup from the estate, again basic expenses, £ for the death certificates, funeral etc, moving company to recover any furniture at his care home.  Those should be accounted for and I think it's fairly standard to give a general accounting to beneficiaries, if they want it.

One of my brothers is the principle contact for our mom's care.  We others have to trust him to get on with things and not take the proverbial with her money.  We also occasionally are compensated when we are more directly involved (my flights to the country where she lives for instance).  No one asks for receipts.  I did an itemised list of costs on my last visit but it was more for my benefit - making sure I covered everything but didn't duplicate or mis remember - and that was the total that was tranferred between her and my accounts.  

Basically - if you have a general idea of what you have spent since dad's death and you tell your siblings and they are ok then go with that.  I'd keep the record for a couple of years in case someone suddenly thinks "hey why's Bolt now driving that fancy sports car?" so you can set their mind at rest.   

Bolt1234

I paid one siblings travel costs for themselves and partner to fly over for funeral and for a handful of trips whilst Father was in care home.  She lives a very simple life and isn’t at all money oriented.  Other sibling didn’t come to funeral.  Said there wasnt much point.  

Brie

Bolt1234 said:

I paid one siblings travel costs for themselves and partner to fly over for funeral and for a handful of trips whilst Father was in care home.  She lives a very simple life and isn’t at all money oriented.  Other sibling didn’t come to funeral.  Said there wasnt much point.  

Right so account for what was spent from the estate after dad died but not for anything before.  Once that has been done you have the figure to split between the 3 of you according to the will.  Sibling that didn't come to the funeral has no cause to complain as they weren't able to attend for whatever reason.  

Bolt1234

thank you all for the sensible answers.  It hasn’t been easy being the single point of contact for Dad during his last years.  He fell out with almost everyone in his younger years and I had to sell his house, find a suitable care home and close down his many many bank accounts, but in the end he came through. I was at his bedside during his final days.  So was one of his grandsons.  Siblings were at the end of the phone…

I have my own money.  Of course Dad’s money was great.  But I dont  need it.  I wish he had spent more on himself when he was able.  His care home took nearly £400k as he was there for a number of years.  That is for another thread!

I think what you are saying is it’s not a legal requirement to send a breakdown to siblings if they don’t ask for one.  Believe me - they honestly won’t!  They were Executors themselves but didn’t want to do it and being abroad the solicitor suggested they stand aside.  They agreed without hesitation and during probate had little interest in the ins and outs!  

If they request one I will do but it’s not a LEGAL requirement of an Executor.

Brie

gov.uk seems to think that you need to provide accounts to any beneficiary.

"Once all the estate is distributed you can prepare the final estate accounts. These should be approved and signed by you and the main beneficiaries."

Can't see that it needs to be done by an accountant or a solicitor, so just a spreadsheet outlining everything including initial distribution justifying everything that brings the estate to a zero value.  

Key word in the quote above is "should".  Your siblings probably won't bother to sign and approve but if you provide the accounts they have the opportunity.  I wouldn't be losing sleep over it if they can't be bothered to actually sign and return something to you.  An email saying "thanks Bolt, all received." would suffice - but as the saying goes IANAL (I am not a lawyer).

Dealing with the estate of someone who's died: Distributing the estate - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Sorry for your loss btw.  Looking after an aged parent is a bit of a thankless job.  Some find it rewarding and others find it a chore.  There were likely very good days that you will cherish and others you would love to forget.  

Bolt1234

I am also now responsible for my Mum who is early 90’s.  She lives near me now in a retirement complex and is doing OK.  We sold her house as she was not coping well on her own.  It hasn’t been an easy journey but stable for now.  Basically I have the same thing all over again - lucky me!

Mum and Dad were divorced years ago and neither remarried in case anyone is wondering.  

As there is still £150k in late Fathers account ready to be finally distributed when solicitor tells me I am using this account to pay my petrol costs.  I also take my grown up children and my husband out for the very occasional meal as I honestly couldn’t do this without their support.  She is only a few mins drive from us now.  Should I be using Mum’s?  Does it really matter?  Mum’s estate is left to the three of us bar £60k which goes to her only grandchildren.  She has plenty to see her out and it’s safely invested.  Too late I feel for Triple Point shares again but retirement complex is very expensive but she  loves it there.  Much bettter than a care home although who knows what the future will bring?

Brie

My MiL told my OH that he was to take reasonable expenses from her account particularly in the 5 years she lived with us before she died.  I've also had friends that took an agreed salary from parents to be their carer.  

I think that now's the time to start using mum's money particularly when you are dealing with her.  It is perfectly acceptable for her to decide to make regular gifts to you especially if she can afford it.  

Is she getting attendance allowance?  And then the knock on question is are you getting carer's allowance?  If mum needs to be in a care home than AA would be granted and it's not based on income.  CA is different as it will depend on whether you are working and earning specific amounts.  But mum might be happy to claim AA to be paid to you directly.  Just a thought.

Bolt1234

Brie.  Thank you.  Both late Father and Mum have AA.  I applied for it on their behalf.  It helps as Mum’s complex is £££ and I have organised some care within the place to supervise showers etc.

 I am not her carer but honestly everything comes hurtling my way, phone calls from strangers saying your Mum told us to call you as you would know the answer etc.  When she had calls it was me again.  Complex won’t pick them up.  It’s either me or an ambulance.  When I go on holiday I ask adult son to be available if he can.  Don’t want to burden him with it though and neither does Mum but the very old panic dreadfully don’t they over things you and I would just fix and resolve.

I visit a couple of times a week as she is housebound but has full capacity.  Sons and husband also support.  It helps that she is close now.   One sibling calls her a few times a week.  Other one rarely but hey ho.  I don’t get any grief from them whatsoever and they were keen to move her into a care home but I thought she should at least try a retirement complex.  She is renting so there is flexibility there.