Migration from benefits to UC questions? Saving etc?

Spoonie_Turtle

blackstar said:

Spoonie would also really appreciate your reply to my above post also.

Poppy thanks for that. When you say 

"If your savings are under £16k when you claim and then you go over that amount then your UC will end."

1. How about during the 12 months transition stage?

2. When you say assesment stages is every month? What does this mean? Does it mean every month we have to declare our savings amount maybe sometimes all bank statements etc at a certain date every month in order to continue wirh UC to prove we are still eligible in relation to savings and incone?

3. Out of interest what's the earning cut out, I read.

". A couple with just one earner in the same circumstances can make almost £59,000 in income before being cut off, a rise from £49,300 previously."

Not that we are anywhere close to that income.

I have nothing to add to what poppy said, and she put it rather more succinctly than I would have

Questions/points from this post:
1. Yes that's in the 12month transitional period.

After the 12 months your options are either to have below £16k in savings and continue to claim UC, or have over £16k and end your UC claim.

2. Assessment periods are rolling calendar months running from the date you submit your claim, as explained by poppy.

If your savings are under £16k but above £6k, you have to update them at the end of any assessment period in which they cross a £250 threshold, up or down, so they can accurately calculate the deductions for savings.

3. Your earnings / income cut off is dictated  by your maximum UC.

So for you:
Max UC  £2342.34 + £643 = £2,985.34
- £561.16 ESA = £2,424.18
÷0.55 (55% taper rate) = £4,407.60
+379 work allowance = £4,786.60 per month of earnings.
*THIS IF YOU HAD SAVINGS UNDER £6,000*
Then minus £4.35 for each £250 savings between £6,000 and £16,000.  With savings of 16k that's £174, so £4,612.6 earnings per month.  That's an annual take-home of £55,351.20             - edit: according to an online calculator that comes out at a gross salary of over £82,000

And it'll all increase in April when benefits have their annual rise for inflation!

So not quite, I made a mistake (thanks Yamor for finding it!)

To account for your house deposit savings:
Max UC  £2342.34 + £643 = £2,985.34
- £561.16 ESA = £2,424.18
- £174 savings deduction = £2250.18
÷0.55 (55% taper rate) = £4091.23
+379 work allowance = £4,470.23 per month of earnings.
Which works out at an annual take-home of £53,642.76

blackstar

Thanks.

1) So even during the 12 months transition stage if our savings are between 6k - 16k and they go over 16k our UC will stop??? Correct? I thought that during the 12 months transition stage it didn't make any difference what your savings were at all? 

2) I still am non the wiser on the month to month assesment thing. Please be patient with me in understanding it? 
Does it mean every month on UC we have to declare our savings and provide evidence ce of them to continue with UC? To prove we don't have more than  16k?

3) How best to make things simple when on UC? Have just one current account which we use for living expenses and savings in a totally different account and keep them the same so it doesn't confuse and get complex?

4) So best advice is to have 16k + at the start if migration to UC and then use it to put a deposit on a house before the end of the 12 months migration as this would entitle us to continue on UC as we would then be under the 16k? Yes?

Thanks so.much again

Yamor

Spoonie_Turtle said:

blackstar said:

Spoonie would also really appreciate your reply to my above post also.

Poppy thanks for that. When you say 

"If your savings are under £16k when you claim and then you go over that amount then your UC will end."

1. How about during the 12 months transition stage?

2. When you say assesment stages is every month? What does this mean? Does it mean every month we have to declare our savings amount maybe sometimes all bank statements etc at a certain date every month in order to continue wirh UC to prove we are still eligible in relation to savings and incone?

3. Out of interest what's the earning cut out, I read.

". A couple with just one earner in the same circumstances can make almost £59,000 in income before being cut off, a rise from £49,300 previously."

Not that we are anywhere close to that income.

3. Your earnings / income cut off is dictated  by your maximum UC.

So for you:
Max UC  £2342.34 + £643 = £2,985.34
- £561.16 ESA = £2,424.18
÷0.55 (55% taper rate) = £4,407.60
+379 work allowance = £4,786.60 per month of earnings.
Then minus £4.35 for each £250 savings between £6,000 and £16,000.  With savings of 16k that's £174, so £4,612.6 earnings per month.  That's an annual take-home of £55,351.20             - edit: according to an online calculator that comes out at a gross salary of over £82,000

And it'll all increase in April when benefits have their annual rise for inflation!

Small mistake here: the £174 comes off earlier in the calculation - together with the deduction for the ESA.

Spoonie_Turtle

blackstar said:

Thanks.

1) So even during the 12 months transition stage if our savings are between 6k - 16k and they go over 16k our UC will stop??? Correct? I thought that during the 12 months transition stage it didn't make any difference what your savings were at all? 

2) I still am non the wiser on the month to month assesment thing. Please be patient with me in understanding it? 
Does it mean every month on UC we have to declare our savings and provide evidence ce of them to continue with UC? To prove we don't have more than  16k?

3) How best to make things simple when on UC? Have just one current account which we use for living expenses and savings in a totally different account and keep them the same so it doesn't confuse and get complex?

4) So best advice is to have 16k + at the start if migration to UC and then use it to put a deposit on a house before the end of the 12 months migration as this would entitle us to continue on UC as we would then be under the 16k? Yes?

Thanks so.much again

1. The 12 months protection is if you start your claim with over £16,000 in savings.  Specifically, the savings over £16,000 are disregarded/ignored for up to 12months. 

If you go under £16k, then there is nothing to disregard so that no longer applies.  If you then go back over £16k, you will no longer be eligible for UC.


2. Proving your savings level won't apply if you stay over £16k in the first 12months.

If you go below 16k, you then need to notify them about changes - if you've ended an assessment period with a different amount, if it's crossed a £250 threshold from the previous month.

The reason for this is they deduct £4.35/month for every £250 you have between 6k and 16k.  So they need to know if you've crossed a £250 threshold in order to calculate the right deduction.

They may ask for proof, they may not.  I haven't been in this situation to know, and I haven't heard experiences of what happens.  But if they do want you to provide proof they will ask for it, so either way you will know.  Don't tangle yourself up with worry, trying to anticipate what they'll want, they will tell you.


3. Whatever works for you.  The simple way to work out your savings is to add up all the money you've recieved that month, and minus that from the overall total of everything you have.  But if it helps to have single separate accounts, feel free to do that.  You don't *have* to, for proving savings levels etc., but if it'll make it simpler and save you some work and some worry, go for it.


4. Yes

blackstar

Thanks I am starting to make sense of it much better. I do struggle with learning and am disadvantaged in this area.
Your advice is so helpful you have no idea how much.

1) Guessing that at the end of the 12 months being over 16K and then dropping under 16k won't matter as the 12 months is up and will mean we can continue to claim UC as savings will be under 16k as we will have used our savings for a house. Correct?

2) After the 12 months, as we fluctuate over 16k then back under after we have spent our living expenses, do we every month need to declare our savings and capital even if its the same one month to the next?

3) it sounds like a nightmare as every single month our savings and current accounts fluctuate between 13k and 16k. How on earth am I going to cope with this

Yamor

blackstar said:

Thanks I am starting to make sense of it much better. I do struggle with learning and am disadvantaged in this area.
Your advice is so helpful you have no idea how much.

1) Guessing that at the end of the 12 months being over 16K and then dropping under 16k won't matter as the 12 months is up and will mean we can continue to claim UC as savings will be under 16k as we will have used our savings for a house. Correct?

2) After the 12 months, as we fluctuate over 16k then back under after we have spent our living expenses, do we every month need to declare our savings and capital even if its the same one month to the next?

3) it sounds like a nightmare as every single month our savings and current accounts fluctuate between 13k and 16k. How on earth am I going to cope with this

1. As long as your savings are below £16k once the 12 months are up, you'll be fine. Unless you are deemed to have deliberately deprived yourself of capital in order to ensure you are entitled to UC (or are entitled to more UC).

2. You only ever have to report a "change of circumstances". If your capital has stayed the same, no change has happened, so there is nothing to report.

3. The way to calculate it will be to take your total savings as at the end of the last day of each assessment period, and deduct from that total any income received in that assessment period. There may be further sums to deduct - for example, any cost of living payments you've received can be deducted from the total as well.

poppy12345

blackstar said:

2) After the 12 months, as we fluctuate over 16k then back under after we have spent our living expenses, do we every month need to declare our savings and capital even if its the same one month to the next?

No, you do not need to report savings every month because as explained if they've remained the same, there's nothing to report. You only need to report savings for every £250 (or part thereof) difference.

poppy12345

blackstar said:

Out of interest I read:

"Currently, the maximum savings limit for those claiming Universal Credit is £16,000 for single claimants and £24,000 for couples." 

That's not correct and it's been covered many times throughout the thread. The maximum savings limit is £16,000 whether it's a single or couples claim.

poppy12345

Yamor said:

blackstar said:

Thanks I am starting to make sense of it much better. I do struggle with learning and am disadvantaged in this area.
Your advice is so helpful you have no idea how much.

1) Guessing that at the end of the 12 months being over 16K and then dropping under 16k won't matter as the 12 months is up and will mean we can continue to claim UC as savings will be under 16k as we will have used our savings for a house. Correct?

2) After the 12 months, as we fluctuate over 16k then back under after we have spent our living expenses, do we every month need to declare our savings and capital even if its the same one month to the next?

3) it sounds like a nightmare as every single month our savings and current accounts fluctuate between 13k and 16k. How on earth am I going to cope with this

2. You only ever have to report a "change of circumstances". If your capital has stayed the same, no change has happened, so there is nothing to report.

I've read this quite a few times but it still doesn't make sense to me. I'm thinking you may have incorrectly worded it. 

You only need to report changes if there's been an increase or decrease in capital of £250 or part thereof. If it's remained the same, there's nothing to report.

Yamor

poppy12345 said:

Yamor said:

blackstar said:

Thanks I am starting to make sense of it much better. I do struggle with learning and am disadvantaged in this area.
Your advice is so helpful you have no idea how much.

1) Guessing that at the end of the 12 months being over 16K and then dropping under 16k won't matter as the 12 months is up and will mean we can continue to claim UC as savings will be under 16k as we will have used our savings for a house. Correct?

2) After the 12 months, as we fluctuate over 16k then back under after we have spent our living expenses, do we every month need to declare our savings and capital even if its the same one month to the next?

3) it sounds like a nightmare as every single month our savings and current accounts fluctuate between 13k and 16k. How on earth am I going to cope with this

2. You only ever have to report a "change of circumstances". If your capital has stayed the same, no change has happened, so there is nothing to report.

I've read this quite a few times but it still doesn't make sense to me. I'm thinking you may have incorrectly worded it. 

You only need to report changes if there's been an increase or decrease in capital of £250 or part thereof. If it's remained the same, there's nothing to report.

Sorry, badly worded. There's a full stop after the word "circumstances".
I'm saying that the rule is that you only have to report a change of circumstances.
Therefore, if your capital has stayed the same, then as no change has happened, there is nothing to report.