Migration from benefits to UC questions? Saving etc?

blackstar

Thanks for this it is so beyond helpful.
I couldn't have done it myself. 

I think I found out what you mean.

BRMA

Two Bedrooms Rate:

£149.59 per week

Is that it? If not I'll message you a PM.

We were getting housing benefit well a percentage paid for by the LA and there was a break or something, can't remember what but I messed up and they said they can't reinstate it and to get housing benefit we have to go through UC but I read up on how we would loose tax credits etc so thought we better not. 
If we have a mortgage does UC help with any of that at all? Just checked and it does say it can pay the SMI but doesn't make sense to me, I just need to know if it brings down how much you have to pay for your monthly mortgage payments? Any idea? 

Would moving address stop your tax credits? I hope not? We have changed address a few times and never had our tax credits stop before. Just updated our address. I think it's just things like if you spit with partner or your income increases more than £2,500 that tax credits may stop?

Guess after the 12 months transitiom ends we will be about £760 worse off each month. So much for switching to UC means you won't be worse off. We will be hugely worse off (other than first 12 months).
Still can't believe that really. 

Spoonie_Turtle

Ah, saw your message before your post.  Yes that's what I get too.  So:

£149.59 per week x52 ÷12 = £648.22
Which means they will pay your actual rent amount (yay, most people have a shortfall when it comes to rent).

So your UC payments will be £723.88 + £643 = £1366.88
£552.21 better off every month, or converting to a weekly amount of £315.43 you'll be ~£127 better off every week.

***other regulars please do double check my calculations for all this!***

blackstar said:

1. We were getting housing benefit well a percentage paid for by the LA and there was a break or something, can't remember what but I messed up and they said they can't reinstate it and to get housing benefit we have to go through UC but I read up on how we would loose tax credits etc so thought we better not. 

2. If we have a mortgage does UC help with any of that at all? Just checked and it does say it can pay the SMI but doesn't make sense to me, I just need to know if it brings down how much you have to pay for your monthly mortgage payments? Any idea? 

3. Would moving address stop your tax credits? I hope not? We have changed address a few times and never had our tax credits stop before. Just updated our address. I think it's just things like if you spit with partner or your income increases more than £2,500 that tax credits may stop?

4. Guess after the 12 months transitiom ends we will be about £760 worse off each month. So much for switching to UC means you won't be worse off. We will be hugely worse off (other than first 12 months).
Still can't believe that really. 

1. Probably because of your savings, or if your income went too high.  I think different councils have different rules whether people can claim HB with £6k or £16k, but over that would have ended it for sure.

2. SMI is just a set amount for interest (set by DWP, doesn't go on what your actual interest is), it doesn't reduce the capital payments.  And it's a repayable loan, when you either sell or transfer ownership of the property.  https://www.gov.uk/support-for-mortgage-interest/what-youll-get

3. I don't think so but you need to remember once you apply for UC or at the deadline to do so, your Tax Credits will stop.  You cannot claim them beyond that point.  Though rereading your first post it sounds like you haven't had the letter yet?  It will give a three-month deadline to apply to get a managed migration (and the transitional protection from it) so if you leave it as late as possible you'll get the most benefit for as long as possible.  Income increases will depend on the Tax Credits threshold.

4. If you've not been able to use your savings on a property by the end of the 12 months then yes you will be worse off.  However you are MUCH better off on UC than if they didn't give any protection for the managed migration though; you get a year's grace of being eligible even with savings over the threshold, and being eligible for a higher amount of financial help than you were on legacy benefits. 
Without that protection you'd have no help at all when your Tax Credits ended.  People whose changes of circumstances forced their Tax Credits to close won't have had any protection at all, and with savings over £16k they'd not be entitled to any means-tested help for anything.  Means-tested benefits calculate whether you have the means to live, and such substantial savings as £16,000+ are deemed to be the means to live.

*If my calculations are correct* then with the extra £500+/month I would advise you to seriously consider whether you can save up the rest of the deposit and buy a property within the year (or within a couple of months after that year - you can reclaim UC after that if your savings go below £16,000, which they would if you used them for a deposit).

poppy12345

If your children

blackstar said:

Guess after the 12 months transitiom ends we will be about £760 worse off each month. So much for switching to UC means you won't be worse off. We will be hugely worse off (other than first 12 months).
Still can't believe that really. 

What they've said is that when you do move across because of managed migration you won't be worse off when you claim it. This doesn't mean you won't be worse off in the future, the same applies to everyone. They can't disregard your savings for an indefinite period.

blackstar

Thanks all so very much in particular to Spoonie who I can see has taken alot of time to help us. So very helpful. And we now understand so much which makes our decisions making for our future so much clearer and far better as we now can adjust accordingly.

Am I understanding this correctly? It seems that we for us in order of the best case for us in our situation are as follows.

1) best situation - renting (privately or with social or council housing) and staying below 16k. No monthly rent or mortgage to pay.

2)  2nd best situation- not as good as 1st - as lose  the rent beinf paid and have the expense of a monthly mortgage  to pay *buying a house and staying below 16k.

3) Buying a house and being g above 16k in savings. Lose UC payments and have a monthly mortgage to pay. 

Shame we get no help with the monthly mortgage payments even if under 16k in savings unlike help with mosr of the rent being paid under UC. Is that right?

My other question is what if say we have 13K in savings and once my wifes earnings and Chikd Disability payments come jn it takes our current account to over 16K but then once all living expenses are paid by the end of the month we are back down to 13K?

I did read this:

What is included in capital?

46.—(1) The whole of a person's capital is to be taken into account unless—

(a)it is to be treated as income (see paragraphs (3) and (4)); or

(b)it is to be disregarded (see regulation 48).

(2) A person's personal possessions are not to be treated as capital.

(3) Subject to paragraph (4), any sums that are paid regularly and by reference to a period, for example payments under an annuity, are to be treated as income even if they would, apart from this provision, be regarded as capital or as having a capital element.

(4) Where capital is payable by instalments, each payment of an instalment is to be treated as income if the amount outstanding, combined with any other capital of the person (and, if the person is a member of a couple, the other member), exceeds £16,000, but otherwise such payments are to be treated as capital.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/regulation/46

Do we need to provide UC monthly bank and savings statements or only at the start of the claim and once every year?

Also still hoping maybe there's a little small print that says any savings from Child Disability Payment etc is disregarded as capital somewhere in amongst that link...

poppy12345

blackstar said:

Also still hoping maybe there's a little small print that says any savings from Child Disability Payment etc is disregarded as capital somewhere in amongst that link...

There's no small print to find for this because it doesn't exist. Their disability payments are paid into your wife's back account so she has access to them, therefore there's no disregard.

blackstar

Looking at the Scottish Child Payments which is £25 per child. 
We will also loose this is we have 16k in savings and on universal credit. 
So another financial hit, we will loose our chikd tax credits at £188 per week AND the Scottish Child Payments!!!!

Which benefits do you need to be getting

You must get one of these benefits:

• Child Tax Credit
• income-based Jobseeker's Allowance
• income-related Employment and Support Allowance
• Income Support
• Pension Credit
• Universal Credit – if your UC is reduced to £0 by a sanction or a deduction, you can still get Scottish Child Payment
• Working Tax Credit.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/scotland/benefits/help-if-on-a-low-income/scottish-child-payment-s/#:~:text=The Scottish Child Payment won't affect your other benefits.

Spoonie_Turtle

blackstar said:

My other question is what if say we have 13K in savings and once my wifes earnings and Chikd Disability payments come jn it takes our current account to over 16K but then once all living expenses are paid by the end of the month we are back down to 13K?

…

Do we need to provide UC monthly bank and savings statements or only at the start of the claim and once every year?

As already stated, for UC, income becomes capital if any of it is unspent by the end of the assessment period after the one in which it is received.  That's for when you are claiming. 

So let's say a May/June assessment period, your wife's wages and the disability benefits add up to £3,000.  They won't count as capital until/unless any is left at the end of the June/July assessment period.

You would have to update them if your savings change across a £250 threshold between £6,000 and £16,000 at the end of an assessment period.  They may or may not want to see bank statements for that. 
In the first year if your savings stay over £16,000 then you won't have to update them, only if your savings drop below £16,000 (then the disregard ends, and if they went back over £16k you'd no longer be eligible for UC).

blackstar

Thanks. 
Do you think it would be better to have our savings over 16k at the start of migration rather than then between 6k and 16k?
As they probably will be just over 16k at the start of the migration period anyhow. Then hopefully we will have found a property by the end of the migration period and then will be below 16 at the end of the migration period?

Also when is the assesment stages? 
For us we fluctuate between 0 and 3k over every month. As we have a current account which some benefits go into and my wife's wages goes into and then our sperate savings account which a couple of other benefits go into which we have to use at times. In the main current account or goes up to about 2k at the end of the month when my wifes wage goes in and over the month other benefits go in and by the end of the month it goes back to zero or £400. 
So not sure how best to manage it all to make things easier for the assessment stages and stopping things getting to complicated with us going between having 15k in savings and then 3k in spending money each month? What do you think would make things a least complex in this situation? Thanks

poppy12345

blackstar said:

Thanks. 
Do you think it would be better to have our savings over 16k at the start of migration rather than then between 6k and 16k?
As they probably will be just over 16k at the start of the migration period anyhow. Then hopefully we will have found a property by the end of the migration period and then will be below 16 at the end of the migration period?

It will definitely be better to have more than £16k when you migrate to UC but you then need to make sure you don't go under that amount. If you do and then go back over £16k again, then as advised previously your UC will end.

If your savings are under £16k when you claim and then you go over that amount then your UC will end.

blackstar said:

So not sure how best to manage it all to make things easier for the assessment stages

Assessment stages? They don't end. An assessment period lasts for one calendar month every month. The first day of your assessment period will be the date you submit your claim. If you submit your claim on the 15th of every month then your AP will be 15th to 14th of every month. You will then receive your UC on 21st of every month.

blackstar

Spoonie would also really appreciate your reply to my above post also.

Poppy thanks for that. When you say 

"If your savings are under £16k when you claim and then you go over that amount then your UC will end."

How about during the 12 months transition stage?

When you say assesment stages is every month? What does this mean? Does it mean every month we have to declare our savings amount maybe sometimes all bank statements etc at a certain date every month in order to continue wirh UC to prove we are still eligible in relation to savings and incone?

Out of interest I read:

"Currently, the maximum savings limit for those claiming Universal Credit is £16,000 for single claimants and £24,000 for couples." 

Guessing this is wrong?

Out of interest what's the earning cut out, I read.

". A couple with just one earner in the same circumstances can make almost £59,000 in income before being cut off, a rise from £49,300 previously."

Not that we are anywhere close to that income.

earning-50000-entitled-benefits-massive-expansion-welfare/#:~:text=The%20Chancellor%27s%20welfare%20shake%2Dup,entitled%20to%20receive%20Universal%20Credit