Protect our assets

Brie

Part of the problem can be that where the person is moved from a hospital the LA paying for the care is the default.  That was the case with us even though we knew MiL would have to self fund.  The LA paid for her care until she died after 9 weeks.  We had sent them the financial assessment a couple of weeks before that but they didn't get around to finalising anything until nearly 2 months after her death.  I expect that's how long it took them to make sure the ££ was actually owed and how much.

bobster2

Mojisola said:

bobster2 said:

Mojisola said:

What usually happens if it is decided that a person is self-funding is the council have nothing more to do with the case.  It would be up to the family how any care would be funded.

I have found that even when you tell them that the person going into care will be self-funding - the LA still tries to get you to complete a financial assessment. I assume in preparation for a time when funds might run out - so they have a record of what the person had (so they can keep an eye on possible DoA).

The decision that a person is self-funding is taken after the financial assessment is done.

It can be - but if the family know they need to self-fund - they can just skip the assessment and start paying. Particularly if they know assets vs life expectancy mean they are never likely to be eligible for LA funding.

Mojisola

bobster2 said:

Mojisola said:

The decision that a person is self-funding is taken after the financial assessment is done.

It can be - but if the family know they need to self-fund - they can just skip the assessment and start paying. Particularly if they know assets vs life expectancy mean they are never likely to be eligible for LA funding.

That's why I said "If everything is arranged privately, there's no reason for the council to have any input."

tooldle

km1500 said:

silly question but what happens if the person in self funding care home refuses to disclose financial.info.ie refuses to cooperate

Nothing, an assessment can be declined. My mum changed care facilities on discharge from hospital. I declined the financial assessment. 

msb1234

Mojisola said:

bobster2 said:

Mojisola said:

What usually happens if it is decided that a person is self-funding is the council have nothing more to do with the case.  It would be up to the family how any care would be funded.

I have found that even when you tell them that the person going into care will be self-funding - the LA still tries to get you to complete a financial assessment. I assume in preparation for a time when funds might run out - so they have a record of what the person had (so they can keep an eye on possible DoA).

The decision that a person is self-funding is taken after the financial assessment is done.

I think if the person is requesting a move into a home, then they just need to prove to the manager of the home that they can pay. Perhaps it’s different if it has been deemed by a social worker that they are no longer capable of living alone? 

km1500

I am guessing some self funding people delay being moved into a home as long as possible and then some - I don't think anyone can 'force' you into a home against your wishes and every week delayed is £1000-ish saved ?

PeterE17

km1500 said:

I am guessing some self funding people delay being moved into a home as long as possible and then some - I don't think anyone can 'force' you into a home against your wishes and every week delayed is £1000-ish saved ?

From the supposed "savings" you must deduct weekly costs for food, power, council tax, tv licence, transport, insurance and maybe more. If you delay moving into care until there's no option, and you own your own home which you leave empty, you'll be paying twice for power and insurance, and maybe council tax, until someone with power of attorney can sell your home for you. If you neglect to appoint a POA and have lost the ability to do so, someone will need to apply for Court of Protection deputyship which will be expensive and funded from your estate. This happened to my siblings and I, it's not hypothetical.      

Keep_pedalling

km1500 said:

I am guessing some self funding people delay being moved into a home as long as possible and then some - I don't think anyone can 'force' you into a home against your wishes and every week delayed is £1000-ish saved ?

I guess that is true for some people, but it is more likely that those depending on LA funding will wait longer to receive the level of care they really need as they will be relying on approval for funding from a panel with very strict rule on how decrepit you have to be before you get it. Those with a good level of assets have the option of acting earlier, they also have more options as far as intermediate measures are concerned. They could pay for a live in carer for instance (something the LA will not provide) they will also have better access to alternative accommodation such as assisted living or sheltered housing..  

These things help delay, or even avoid, going into residential care but they do require a decent level of savings which it is why it is madness for someone in that situation to deliberately deprive themselves of those options. They could find themselves getting no support from the LA due to DDoA and also unable to access their own money because it is locked up in an inappropriate trust.

Brie

km1500 said:

I am guessing some self funding people delay being moved into a home as long as possible and then some - I don't think anyone can 'force' you into a home against your wishes and every week delayed is £1000-ish saved ?

The other half of the problem is that the LA will try to delay someone going into care as well if there's a possibility that they might need to fund it in the future. 

That was the case with MiL where we had the double whammy of no POA in place and a potential court of protection case which the LA was trying to avoid by insisting that my OH & I could look after MiL 24/7 and without any assistance at all.  Once they found that we wouldn't be such push overs they said that at home care could be provided but couldn't guarantee how it would work, what it might cost or whether there could be any respite as we would still need to both be at home 24/7 (despite me having a f/t job in an office....).  It was at our insistence that MiL did go into a care home, which makes us sound heartless perhaps but after 5 years it was the only way we would be able to survive at all.