economy 7

Gerry1

squizz11 said:

the off peak just stores the heat from 12 till 7,   do we have any control over that?   I'm used to GCH and I kinda get how that works,   but we don't have a clue with storage heaters

Yes, basically turn the wick up and it'll cost more.  Your mum wiil have to keep an eye on the weather forecast and adjust the settings accordingly.  If it's a modern HHR NSH with a screen then it's important that it's programmed to suit the user's needs, not just left on the default settings.

Just post the info requested above and some will be able to advise.

Scot_39

squizz11 said:

the off peak just stores the heat from 12 till 7,   do we have any control over that?   I'm used to GCH and I kinda get how that works,   but we don't have a clue with storage heaters

The most basic NSH IIRC only had one control - an input control - essentially controlling the "brick" temperature.

Hit the desired "input" level - and it switches off the input power - the same was as any thermostat regulated heater (except as I say it isn't room temp - but heater store temp as a rule).

Others had passive venting controls - a variable louvre if you like controlling air flow - more air flow - more heat output - some manual - others automated by time (*) - or even actual by thermostats in some cases.

With the manual ones you might say close the output overnight - to hold heat as charge up on e7 - and open later in day as needed (especially say if out / working all day)

(*) Thats the level my 20+ year models are at - with two dials - one controlling the input charge - one controlling the delay on opening of the louvre by some pseudo time - if selected.

Many now need fans to output their rated heat.

The latest and greatest at the top end of curent ranges act more like a GCH system - they have an output controlled by a programmable time / temperature profile - and some are rated specifically to hold on to more of their heat than others unless demanded - those certified High Heat Retention - and an adaptive charging mechanism - to track the rooms demand. A set-up and forget type system - a bit like setting up a programmable thermostat for GCH

Without knowing the model of the heaters - assuming we can even find the manuals on-line - it's difficult to advice.

There is always likely to be some controllability.

But on older models - it's going to be nowhere near as controllable as a GCH system and a room master thermostat.

And nor as responsive - I don't quite have to plan as far ahead as somone on E7 - but do watch weather forecasts and with past experience of how the settings impact room my homes room temperatures - adjust my settings.  

And just now when day time / night time temps jumping around by several degrees every couple of days - thats a mild pain.  Ive got three older NSH - and gone from none to 1 on min to 3 on for me a highish setting - back to mins - back to none - and back to 1 - in last couple of weeks alone - as weather changes. 

They are definitely not set and forget.

markin

What company and rates is she on? switching can save a large amount.

Jonboy_1984

One interesting quirk of the forced move from Sse to Ovo was that:
Our meter was setup as:
Rate 1= day
Rate 2 = night

Sse meter readings:
Enter day reading
Enter night reading

Ovo meter readings:
Enter night reading
Enter day billing

EssexHebridean

Jonboy - if you are saying that the change from SSE to Ovo switched your rate1 & rate 2 around, that seems unlikely. have you definitely checked that you are being charged correctly still? If it's just that the way the readings are required to be entered that has changed, that's not a problem at all as far as I can think, once you know about it. If your Ovo meter reading screen is now showing rate 1 as being your off-peak though, and you know it always used to be the peak rate, then you will need to give them a call and let them know that the readings are now transposed. 

When we were on E7 we always had R1 = night and R2 = day - and several times had to sort out issues with suppliers who wrongly assumed that they were the other way round, and decided to input accordingly! 

JSHarris

We had a similar issue with the Rate 1/Rate 2 readings being swapped over when we changed supplier a couple of years ago (problem was caused by a meter reader making a mistake).  Our E7 meter follows the common pattern of Rate 1 = Peak, Rate 2 = Off-Peak.

Very easy to spot this problem for us, as we barely ever use any peak rate electricity (thanks to battery storage), so it's not unusual for Rate 1 (the Peak Rate register) to not change reading from one month to the next (which often results in questions being asked by suppliers).  Our Rate 2 register on the other hand always increments by a fair bit, from charging the battery system overnight as well as running the heating, hot water and car charging.

One issue with your mum's storage heating, @squizz11 may be that her heaters have a day time boost.  Some do this by just opening a mechanical flap to let more heat out, but some have the (expensive) option of boosting at peak rate if a higher temperature is set.  This can get to be very costly!

squizz11

rate 1 is definately day as I tested it while I was there this weekend 
in a 24 hour period 
rate 1 33197 to 33203
rate2 10997 to 11027

she rarely uses boost and she doesn't change the controls on the wall, (pics below)  she changes the thermostat on the heaters or turns them off,  she has 5 heaters but only uses 1.   

If she turns economy 7 off at night she worries that she will get a chilly day even in summer and then has to wait 24 hours for heat (will they boost if they didn't get heat overnight)

QrizB

The good news is, that heater is a Dimplex Quantum. Assuming it's been correctly installed, iIt will automatically take as much overnight electricity as it thinks it needs to keep warm all day and does have a boost heater if it turns out to be unusually cold.

I see it's set to 25C. That might be the temperature she wants but it will be inceasing her heating costs significantly.

squizz11 said:

rate 1 is definately day as I tested it while I was there this weekend 
in a 24 hour period 
rate 1 33197 to 33203
rate2 10997 to 11027

So 6kWh of day-rate and 30kWh of night rate. That's the correct way around.

squizz11 said:

she rarely uses boost and she doesn't change the controls on the wall, (pics below)  she changes the thermostat on the heaters or turns them off,  she has 5 heaters but only uses 1.  

Why does she only use one? She could turn the others on but set the target temperature low?

squizz11 said:

If she turns economy 7 off at night she worries that she will get a chilly day even in summer and then has to wait 24 hours for heat (will they boost if they didn't get heat overnight)

This sentence doesn't really make any sense to me. The Economy 7 supply comes on every night. Do you mean turning off the off-peak switch on the Horstmann BX2000 controller? That only controls her immersion heaters, for hot water. It should have no effect on the storage heaters.

squizz11

her bill is roughly a third higher than others in the same housing for the whole year.  it's sheltered so they are all the same.   the guy next door uses less in the summer my mum doesn't.

this is what my last sentence was about, if she turns economy seven off during the summer to save money , she gets no hot water other than if she turns immersion on for an hour.  if she turned economy seven off during the night in the summer would boost on heating still work, she has raynauds so still gets chilly.

we are just trying to save her some money and we don't understand why she seems to use more than others.

kitchen heater isn't used as the room gets too hot and she hates heat in the bedroom unless it's really really cold

QrizB

squizz11 said:

if she turns economy seven off during the summer to save money

If she turns exactly what off? The main switch on the E7 consumer unit?

squizz11 said:

if she turns economy seven off during the summer to save money , she gets no hot water other than if she turns immersion on for an hour.

It makes no sense switching off E7 at the CU if you then need to pay daytime rates for hot water.

squizz11 said:

if she turned economy seven off during the night in the summer would boost on heating still work

I'll have to pass that question to one of the Dimplex Quntum experts, but as the storage heater should only store the amount of heat it thinks it needs to achieve the set temperature, switching off E7 isn't likely to reduce energy consumption.

squizz11 said:

she has raynauds so still gets chilly.

This is probably why her bill is higher than her neighbour's, she's heating her flat all year round.