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Details on Contract Note

lindabea
Posts: 1,507 Forumite


I sold some units from my Vanguard GA last year, and I noticed that although the contract note shows the selling price of the units as well as the total units sold, it does not however show the average unit cost. So my question is, if HMRC ask me for a document to prove the acquisition cost of those shares, what can I give them. Of course, I can give them all the contract notes that made up the total shares from which the average price can be derived, but this seems too laborious.
It would seem to me that it would be a far simpler process if Vanguard (and perhaps other platforms) would show the average unit cost at the time of sale as well as the selling price, and maybe even the total number of units held.
I can't find anything on Vanguard that would make this process of determining the gain/loss for CGT purposes any easier, other than keeping my own record of the average price. But my concern is that I do not have any official document to prove it, other than the individual contract notes which if investing on a regular basis, could run into hundreds of documents.
I would be interested in anyone's experience with dealing with HMRC regarding CGT. Do they just accept your figures or do they tend to ask for proof. .
It would seem to me that it would be a far simpler process if Vanguard (and perhaps other platforms) would show the average unit cost at the time of sale as well as the selling price, and maybe even the total number of units held.
I can't find anything on Vanguard that would make this process of determining the gain/loss for CGT purposes any easier, other than keeping my own record of the average price. But my concern is that I do not have any official document to prove it, other than the individual contract notes which if investing on a regular basis, could run into hundreds of documents.
I would be interested in anyone's experience with dealing with HMRC regarding CGT. Do they just accept your figures or do they tend to ask for proof. .
Before doing something... do nothing
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Comments
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lindabea said:I sold some units from my Vanguard GA last year, and I noticed that although the contract note shows the selling price of the units as well as the total units sold, it does not however show the average unit cost. So my question is, if HMRC ask me for a document to prove the acquisition cost of those shares, what can I give them. Of course, I can give them all the contract notes that made up the total shares from which the average price can be derived, but this seems too laborious.
It would seem to me that it would be a far simpler process if Vanguard (and perhaps other platforms) would show the average unit cost at the time of sale as well as the selling price, and maybe even the total number of units held.
I can't find anything on Vanguard that would make this process of determining the gain/loss for CGT purposes any easier, other than keeping my own record of the average price. But my concern is that I do not have any official document to prove it, other than the individual contract notes which if investing on a regular basis, could run into hundreds of documents.
I would be interested in anyone's experience with dealing with HMRC regarding CGT. Do they just accept your figures or do they tend to ask for proof. .
The chances that HMRC will question anything are small and it'll usually accept your figures but I remember reading someone's account of what happened when HMRC questioned their CGT calculations. They said HMRC was happy to work with a broker's statement, they didn't have to dig out each and every contract note.2 -
Worth keeping your own records. Keep copies of the contract notes and log them onto a spreadsheet. Easy then to calculate profit/loss on disposals.
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Hoenir said:Worth keeping your own records. Keep copies of the contract notes and log them onto a spreadsheet. Easy then to calculate profit/loss on disposals.Before doing something... do nothing0
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lindabea said:I sold some units from my Vanguard GA last year, and I noticed that although the contract note shows the selling price of the units as well as the total units sold, it does not however show the average unit cost.That's because the contract note is only relevant to the tradeSo my question is, if HMRC ask me for a document to prove the acquisition cost of those shares, what can I give them. Of course, I can give them all the contract notes that made up the total shares from which the average price can be derived, but this seems too laboriousIt's the only accurate way to do it. If you keep a running total in Excel from the start it's a trivial exercise. One line per transaction with a subtotalIt would seem to me that it would be a far simpler process if Vanguard (and perhaps other platforms) would show the average unit cost at the time of sale as well as the selling price, and maybe even the total number of units held.Again this is outside the purpose of the contract note which is only concerned with a specific trade. The platform may not even know the costs of acquisition (along with transaction fees, stamp duty) if one or more in speccie transfers took place as these figures do not usually follow the transferI can't find anything on Vanguard that would make this process of determining the gain/loss for CGT purposes any easier, other than keeping my own record of the average price.I would not trust any figure from the platform. It would have to cope with stock splits, open offers and other corporate actions and I doubt they would want to take on the burden of responsibility to HMRCBut my concern is that I do not have any official document to prove it, other than the individual contract notes which if investing on a regular basis, could run into hundreds of documents.Your contract notes are those official documentsI would be interested in anyone's experience with dealing with HMRC regarding CGT. Do they just accept your figures or do they tend to ask for proof. .Broadly yes they accept your figures unless they challenge you and then you will need those contract notes. As I recall you don't just add a figure as you would with earnings or interest, you would supply your workings (costs including trx fees, stamp duty, maybe equalisation payments, dividends etc and realisation amounts)One of the often overlooked duties of a GIA is keeping full and accurate records. The only sane way to do it I find is Excel (or similar) and a running total from the get go, then it's a doddleDoing it from scratch for every sale would give me sleepless nightsIt also discourages you from making dozens (hundreds?) of tiny transactions which is probably not a bad thing2
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lindabea said:I sold some units from my Vanguard GA last year, and I noticed that although the contract note shows the selling price of the units as well as the total units sold, it does not however show the average unit cost. So my question is, if HMRC ask me for a document to prove the acquisition cost of those shares, what can I give them. Of course, I can give them all the contract notes that made up the total shares from which the average price can be derived, but this seems too laborious.
It would seem to me that it would be a far simpler process if Vanguard (and perhaps other platforms) would show the average unit cost at the time of sale as well as the selling price, and maybe even the total number of units held.
I can't find anything on Vanguard that would make this process of determining the gain/loss for CGT purposes any easier, other than keeping my own record of the average price. But my concern is that I do not have any official document to prove it, other than the individual contract notes which if investing on a regular basis, could run into hundreds of documents.
I would be interested in anyone's experience with dealing with HMRC regarding CGT. Do they just accept your figures or do they tend to ask for proof. .
Even so, that's easier than unwrapped accumulation units, where you have to identify and declare for income tax the retained income each year, and then deduct all the retained income that you've paid income tax on from the proceeds of sale of your units before you can work out your taxable gain. That's a nightmare where there have been multiple purchases.
That's why I only have income units in my GIA.
Really you are expecting too much for a platform to do all the various necessary calculations for you for nothing.1 -
lindabea said:Hoenir said:Worth keeping your own records. Keep copies of the contract notes and log them onto a spreadsheet. Easy then to calculate profit/loss on disposals.
How many trades are you undertaking on a monthly basis?0 -
HMRC will have the contract notes. You are responsible for knowing all the rules and calculating your own capital gains. If you are unable to do that, you need to hire an accountant. HMRC periodically checks tax returns and takes action against the tax payer if they are incorrect.
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lindabea said:Hoenir said:Worth keeping your own records. Keep copies of the contract notes and log them onto a spreadsheet. Easy then to calculate profit/loss on disposals.0
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GeoffTF said:HMRC will have the contract notes. You are responsible for knowing all the rules and calculating your own capital gains. If you are unable to do that, you need to hire an accountant. HMRC periodically checks tax returns and takes action against the tax payer if they are incorrect.4
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I have a Vanguard General Accumulation account and quite franky do not know where to start if I have to fill in a tax return. I opened it near the peak of the market about 2 years ago and it has been in a capital loss virtually from the start. Being an accumulation account do the dividends that it automatically reinvests need to be declared, or is this declared as part of the capital gain/loss?
With the hassle I will probably sell it all before it returns a significan capital gain, maybe bed and ISA next tax year. I have less than 20K in it.0
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