Grace period in a 10 minute loading bay? IPC code of practice.

__parker_3

I've received a private parking charge notice with photographic evidence of a vehicle parked for 15 minutes in a "ten minutes maximum" loading/unloading bay. The CPM is an IPC member, so I read the IPC code of conduct on grace periods:

(Code_of_Practice_v8.pdf):

13 Consideration and Grace Periods on Private Land
13.1 Motorists must be allowed a sufficient Consideration Period so they may make
an informed decision as to whether or not to enter or remain on the Private Land.
If a Motorist chooses to reject the opportunity by entering or remaining on the
Private Land without reading terms and conditions, they may be deemed to have
accepted them immediately.
13.2 Before a Parking Charge is issued Motorists must be allowed a Grace Period
save and except when 13.3 is applicable. A Grace Period is a 10 minute period at
the end of a Permitted Period of Parking.
13.3 A Grace Period is not required when the Permitted Period of Parking does not
exceed 1 hour providing that the signage on the site makes it clear to the Motorist,
in a prominent font, that no Grace Period applies on that land.

I believe that 13.3 is applicable, because the Permitted Period of Parking did not exceed 1 hour. However, the signage provided in the photographic evidence most definitely does NOT mention "that no Grace Period applies on that land" in a prominent font.

Therefore I plan to appeal on the grounds that the CPM did not abide by the code of practice by allowing a 10 minute grace period on top of the 10 minutes of permitted parking.

However, I thought I'd check my assumptions with the experts here.

1. The PCM is <XX>. Is it fair to assume that their grace period has to align to the IPC requirement?

2. Are loading bays special in some other way that introduces additional rules that I haven't considered?

3. Does the grace period definitely mean 10 additional minutes during which the car remains stationary in the parking spot, rather than 10 minutes of driving to leave the car park? I assume so because the Code of Practice defines "Grace Period" as follows: "“Grace Period” means a 10 minute period at the end of a Permitted Period of Parking;". It doesn't say anything about what has to happen or not happen during that period.

4. The signage says "vehicles are only permitted in a loading bay when loading and/or unloading". Is it a reasonable interpretation of loading/unloading that the driver was dropping her daughter off at an activity, rather than being present with the vehicle for the whole time taking stuff in and out of it?

Thank you!

Whatever2023

Depends what the reason for issue is, the 10mins max will be just one of the T&C’s.

If issued for overstay, yes they need to give 10mins grace if the sign does not say ‘no grace period’.

If issued because they claim you were not loading/unloading, that’s a different matter all together and they will need to prove you were not and you will need to prove that you were. 

Personally, I wouldn’t consider dropping off a passenger to be unloading (it’s dropping off) but may be open to interpretation.

__parker_3

The reason for issue is "Overstayed the maximum time allowed".

I've just noticed an additional issue: although the T&Cs sign refers to the "loading bay", the actual bay is marked "set down point" and there's nothing labelling it with the literal words "loading bay". The venue in question has a goods-in loading bay for lorries round the back, which is marked "deliveries". The words "loading bay" do not exist anywhere on the site except in the T&Cs sign. Potentially confusing?

Coupon-mad

__james_3 said:

The reason for issue is "Overstayed the maximum time allowed".

I've just noticed an additional issue: although the T&Cs sign refers to the "loading bay", the actual bay is marked "set down point" and there's nothing labelling it with the literal words "loading bay". The venue in question has a goods-in loading bay for lorries round the back, which is marked "deliveries". The words "loading bay" do not exist anywhere on the site except in the T&Cs sign. Potentially confusing?

Do you realise you just replied to an admitted parking firm employee/connected poster?!  It was a helpful reply but do wait for the regulars here to reply as it's a complicated subject.  We have tens of thousands of posts under our names, so you can tell who is slways here!

@Whatever2023 said:

"Personally, I wouldn’t consider dropping off a passenger to be unloading (it’s dropping off) but may be open to interpretation."

Setting down or picking up a passenger is 'exempt activity' which has already interpreted helpfully by the DLUHC in the incoming statutory Code.  Same as on street, a few minutes' for boarding/alighting is stated by the Government as NOT parking.


Anyway, back to the concerns of the innocent motorist OP:

IPC Firms are best ignored these days.

DO NOT PAY PCNs FROM IPC AOS FIRMS.

Related - but not about this PPC:

Interesting that it is in the public domain that this new company was oddly registered this Summer, by a certain person...wonder why?

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/14994806/officers

I wonder. Nice try. Thwarted I hope...

I think I might know what the plan was.  This has been discussed off forum.  The IPC are meant to be completely separate from any parking appeals service.  

Fruitcake

Picking up/Dropping off people and goods is not parking as determined in the appeal case of Jopson v Homeguard.

Fruitcake

Coupon-mad said:

__james_3 said:

The reason for issue is "Overstayed the maximum time allowed".

I've just noticed an additional issue: although the T&Cs sign refers to the "loading bay", the actual bay is marked "set down point" and there's nothing labelling it with the literal words "loading bay". The venue in question has a goods-in loading bay for lorries round the back, which is marked "deliveries". The words "loading bay" do not exist anywhere on the site except in the T&Cs sign. Potentially confusing?

Do you realise you just replied to an admitted parking firm employee/connected poster?!

@Whatever2023 said:

"Personally, I wouldn’t consider dropping off a passenger to be unloading (it’s dropping off) but may be open to interpretation."

We all know here that this us 'exempt activity' which has already interpreted helpfully by the DLUHC in the incoming statutory Code, as boarding/alighting ... which is stated as NOT parking.


Anyway, back to the concerns of the innocent motorist OP:

IPC Firms are best ignored these days.

DO NOT PAY PCNs FROM IPC AOS FIRMS.

Interesting that it is in the public domain that this company was newly registered this Summer, by a certain person...wonder why?

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/14994806/officers

I wonder. Nice try. Thwarted I hope...

I think I might know.  This has been discussed off forum.  The IPC are meant to be completely separate from any parking appeals service.  

An appeals company owned by someone who also owns a company of solicitors? Are we going back in time?

__parker_3

Coupon-mad said:

Do you realise you just replied to an admitted parking firm employee/connected poster?!

No, I did not realise. They seem to have confirmed that my appeal grounds are valid though. I know you've said IPC firms are best ignored, and I respect your advice, but I feel as though if my appeal grounds are valid I should be able to draw a firm line under the matter using the CPM's appeals process?

Fruitcake said:

Picking up/Dropping off people and goods is not parking as determined in the appeal case of Jopson v Homeguard.

That's interesting to know, but I think may be a red herring in my case, as the alleged contravention was for overstaying, and the T&Cs item is "vehicles are only permitted in a loading bay when loading and/or unloading" which doesn't hinge on what counts as parking.

yinadvice

__parker_3 said:

I've received a private parking charge notice with photographic evidence of a vehicle parked for 15 minutes in a "ten minutes maximum" loading/unloading bay. The CPM is an IPC member, so I read the IPC code of conduct on grace periods:

(Code_of_Practice_v8.pdf):

13 Consideration and Grace Periods on Private Land
13.1 Motorists must be allowed a sufficient Consideration Period so they may make
an informed decision as to whether or not to enter or remain on the Private Land.
If a Motorist chooses to reject the opportunity by entering or remaining on the
Private Land without reading terms and conditions, they may be deemed to have
accepted them immediately.
13.2 Before a Parking Charge is issued Motorists must be allowed a Grace Period
save and except when 13.3 is applicable. A Grace Period is a 10 minute period at
the end of a Permitted Period of Parking.
13.3 A Grace Period is not required when the Permitted Period of Parking does not
exceed 1 hour providing that the signage on the site makes it clear to the Motorist,
in a prominent font, that no Grace Period applies on that land.

I believe that 13.3 is applicable, because the Permitted Period of Parking did not exceed 1 hour. However, the signage provided in the photographic evidence most definitely does NOT mention "that no Grace Period applies on that land" in a prominent font.

Therefore I plan to appeal on the grounds that the CPM did not abide by the code of practice by allowing a 10 minute grace period on top of the 10 minutes of permitted parking.

However, I thought I'd check my assumptions with the experts here.

1. The PCM is <XX>. Is it fair to assume that their grace period has to align to the IPC requirement?

2. Are loading bays special in some other way that introduces additional rules that I haven't considered?

3. Does the grace period definitely mean 10 additional minutes during which the car remains stationary in the parking spot, rather than 10 minutes of driving to leave the car park? I assume so because the Code of Practice defines "Grace Period" as follows: "“Grace Period” means a 10 minute period at the end of a Permitted Period of Parking;". It doesn't say anything about what has to happen or not happen during that period.

4. The signage says "vehicles are only permitted in a loading bay when loading and/or unloading". Is it a reasonable interpretation of loading/unloading that the driver was dropping her daughter off at an activity, rather than being present with the vehicle for the whole time taking stuff in and out of it?

Thank you!

Hello, do you a copy of the IPC Code of practice version 8.  They have now the version 9 but when I got my PCN, it was applicable the version 8.  Do you have the link to it? 
Thanks 

fisherjim

yinadvice said:

Hello, do you a copy of the IPC Code of practice version 8.  They have now the version 9 but when I got my PCN, it was applicable the version 8.  Do you have the link to it? 
Thanks 

Took about 5 seconds:

https://irp.cdn-website.com/262226a6/files/uploaded/Code_of_Practice_v8-821f63d6.pdf

LDast

The OP has not been back for almost 9 months. Just do a Google search and you'll find it.