£400 Gas and Water Bill - Climate Change Levy and VAT

Jandre3000

My gas and water bill for this month was £399.99, this bill comes from my landlord which they said would be cheaper as they get business rates. I live in a 2 bedroom flat with my girlfriend so I'm shocked and to be honest confused at how it could possibly be so high with hot water taking up 60% of that bill, a 7.5% admin fee and £56.69 in VAT. 

The electric is supplied separately through SoEnergy which is more in line with what you would expect at around £84 per month 

I asked my landlord how it could possibly be so high and she said this includes the Climate Change Levy as well as the bill being inclusive of VAT 'making it seem higher', so the questions I have are:

- is my landlord allowed to pass on the cost of the climate change levy? 

- Are they charging me too much VAT? 

Netexporter

Landlord supplied energy can be charged at 5% or 20% VAT, depending on the circumstances. Any climate change levies are included in the standing charge. Landlords have to split the standing charge between all the different dwellings. Sounds like they are trying it on, to me.

mark_cycling00

Purely domestic consumption should be exempt from CCL from what I've read.

You'll need to describe a bit more about the your situation, are you renting part of a building that is commercial premises or owned by a business etc 

It's possible that your landlord isn't aware or can't split the domestic vs commercial usage sufficiently for the supplier of energy to allow. (They don't want to be caught for allowing fraud to take place, so could be strict)

Or your landlord can't be bothered to split it. Maybe they've been told they need to pay for another meter or something.
Or they don't want any authorities knowing that that they are renting your place out 

Jandre3000

Thank you for the replies... 

So I'm renting a flat that is purely a dwelling but it does appear that there are a couple of commercial leases within the building too, a limited company owns all of the domestic and commercial premises as far as I'm aware and that company is who the tenancy agreement is with. 

The landlord has supplied reads for our usage so I'm assuming that they're able to split the domestic usage from commercial.

I'm also a little nonplussed at our reported usage being 1797 kwh for hot water alone with another 770 on top for heating last month when for a 2-3 bedroom house, average annual usage is 11,500. 

Spoonie_Turtle

Jandre3000 said:

Thank you for the replies... 

So I'm renting a flat that is purely a dwelling but it does appear that there are a couple of commercial leases within the building too, a limited company owns all of the domestic and commercial premises as far as I'm aware and that company is who the tenancy agreement is with. 

The landlord has supplied reads for our usage so I'm assuming that they're able to split the domestic usage from commercial.

I'm also a little nonplussed at our reported usage being 1797 kwh for hot water alone with another 770 on top for heating last month when for a 2-3 bedroom house, average annual usage is 11,500. 

How are the two metered?  Do you ever get to read your meter(s)?

You'd expect hot water to be lower than heating unless maybe you're taking daily hot baths, although even if the two were swapped that would still be a heck of a lot (it seems to me, anyway).

QrizB

Jandre3000 said:

I'm also a little nonplussed at our reported usage being 1797 kwh for hot water alone with another 770 on top for heating last month when for a 2-3 bedroom house, average annual usage is 11,500. 

Hot water (assuming you mean domestic hot water for taps, showers and baths) shouldn't be more than 3-4kWh per day, so maybe 120kWh for the month.

Spoonie_Turtle said:

How are the two metered?  Do you ever get to read your meter(s)?

Yes, we need nore ino on where these numbers come from!

Jandre3000

Spoonie_Turtle said

How are the two metered?  Do you ever get to read your meter(s)?

QrizB said:

Yes, we need nore ino on where these numbers come from!

 I don't know exactly currently, this is a breakdown of the bill from the invoice I'm going to have to ask about how the two are metered and seeing the physical readings as I believe they're kept in the office.  

QrizB said:

Hot water (assuming you mean domestic hot water for taps, showers and baths) shouldn't be more than 3-4kWh per day, so maybe 120kWh for the month.

Spoonie_Turtle said:

You'd expect hot water to be lower than heating unless maybe you're taking daily hot baths, although even if the two were swapped that would still be a heck of a lot (it seems to me, anyway).

Just taps/showers/baths yeah, I don't understand how our water usage could possibly be as high as it is from that. Google reckons a 100 litre bath uses about 5kwh, in that case we'd have to have 12 baths a day to hit 1797.

Jandre3000

Replying again as I realised I didn't quote:

mark_cycling00 said:

Purely domestic consumption should be exempt from CCL from what I've read.

You'll need to describe a bit more about the your situation, are you renting part of a building that is commercial premises or owned by a business etc 

So I'm renting a flat that is purely a dwelling but it does appear that there are a couple of commercial leases within the building too, a limited company owns all of the domestic and commercial premises as far as I'm aware and that company is who the tenancy agreement is with. 

mark_cycling00 said:

It's possible that your landlord isn't aware or can't split the domestic vs commercial usage sufficiently for the supplier of energy to allow. (They don't want to be caught for allowing fraud to take place, so could be strict)

Or your landlord can't be bothered to split it. Maybe they've been told they need to pay for another meter or something.
Or they don't want any authorities knowing that that they are renting your place out 

The landlord has supplied reads for our usage so I'm assuming that they're able to split the domestic usage from commercial.

HampshireH

Sounds like you have a district heat network. My understanding is that energy is bought in advance so higher rates would apply (wholesale prices have been expensive). 

But this doesn't sound like the rate is the issue more that your meter appears to be incorrect.

Do you not have a heat meter in your flat at all?

Personally I would in writing Raise your concerns with your landlord that the usage cited is not in keeping with what you are actually using.

What was your usage in previous months by comparison?

Or is your usage a % of the bill. For example there are 6 flats/units and your bill is 1/6 of the overall bill?

Ask for the reading on your heat meter compared to last month (or last 12 months depending on how long you have lived there as more comparable), the tariff details and who the provider is.

Once you have this if you believe the meter is working Incorrectly you can challenge it with all the information behind you.

Robin9

I note an "admin fee".  It is my understanding that s landlord may not make a profit from the resale of energy

Alnat1

I wouldn't think the admin fee is allowed to be a % of the bill. Administration doesn't cost more because you've used more energy, it should be a set fee.