Smart heating controls

jennifernil

We have 2 boilers in our 35 year old house as half of the upper floor is given over to a "granny flat" of some 70sq m that my Mum occupied.   She wanted to be self contained and have control over her heating, so the CH and HW, and the electrics, in that area are totally separate from the systems in the main house.  The electrics have their own sub meter, but the gas is all via the one meter and she paid 25% of the bill.

We replaced the main house boiler in May 2022 and had considered linking the 2 systems, but this proved to be too complicated  and disruptive, due to the layout,  so in July this year we also replaced the small boiler.   Both are  Veissmann Vitodens 100 heat only boilers.  The systems are fully pumped, 2 pumps, and radiators already have TRVs.

In December 2022 we replaced the boiler control system in the main house with  a tado system using Smart TRVs and we are very pleased with the level  of control it gives.

We have not altered the  control system for the   new, small boiler, but would now like to do so.    

Apparently we cannot fit a second tado system, but could we fit maybe a Drayton Wiser system, also with the Smart TRVs?

ThisIsWeird

These are two completely independent CH systems? So why can't you fit another Tado - what reason were you given? Will they interfere with each other? I can't see how.

You'd presumably have two different accounts, and just log in to the one you wish to control.

The Smart TRVs shouldn't be confused either.

jennifernil

This is the  problem, we do not know why, but this has been stated to be the case on the tado community forum.

Do not want to spend the money and then find it does not work!

We only have the one internet in the house

jennifernil

I also look after our Guide Hall, we have 3 separate boilers there which need to be run at different times, and it would be great to be able to do  that when we get internet installed there early next year.

ThisIsWeird

jennifernil said:

This is the  problem, we do not know why, but this has been stated to be the case on the tado community forum.

Do not want to spend the money and then find it does not work!

We only have the one internet in the house

Can I suggest we investigate this properly to find out 'why', before going any further? It would be nuts to have two different systems if it isn't needed.
I wonder if it's to do with the accounts you need to set up, perhaps only one per address? In which case, modify one address "The Flat, 70 Arcadia Ave..."
Like Jennifer, I installed two Hives on two separate boilers in a village hall, both on the same account. Each can be controlled completely independently of the other. Both appear on the App's home screen.
I suspect there was just some confusion in the forum's understanding of your requirements.
Yes, it could mean that you and your mum could adjust the other's temps, but that should be easy to avoid! But I also can't see why they cannot be kept completely separate, on different accounts if you preferred.
I may be missing something, and Tado could be different to Hive, but I can't see how.

ThisIsWeird

Info:
1) your boilers are the same make of heat-only, but the flat's is smaller?
2) you both have hot tanks. How are these currently controlled? 
3) What boiler controls are currently in the flat? What controls the timings, and ditto the temp? Photos of these, please?
4) how do you control the hot water in the main house since fitting the Tado?
5) did you DIY install the Tado yourself? Do you wish to ditto for the flat?

FreeBear

ThisIsWeird said:

jennifernil said:

This is the  problem, we do not know why, but this has been stated to be the case on the tado community forum.

Do not want to spend the money and then find it does not work!

We only have the one internet in the house

Can I suggest we investigate this properly to find out 'why', before going any further? It would be nuts to have two different systems if it isn't needed.
I wonder if it's to do with the accounts you need to set up, perhaps only one per address? In which case, modify one address "The Flat, 70 Arcadia Ave..."

The other possible reason could be that every Tado device has a fixed IP address - That would cause conflicts if you had two devices trying to connect to the same hub/router. But no manufacturer would ship a device with a fixed IP address without some means of changing it.

In the OP's shoes, I'd probably get a second Tado from Screwfix, power it up on the bench and test. If it falls over due to wifi conflicts, Screwfix will refund without question (as long as it is returned within 30 days).

jennifernil

ThisIsWeird said:

jennifernil said:

This is the  problem, we do not know why, but this has been stated to be the case on the tado community forum.

Do not want to spend the money and then find it does not work!

We only have the one internet in the house

Can I suggest we investigate this properly to find out 'why', before going any further? It would be nuts to have two different systems if it isn't needed.
I wonder if it's to do with the accounts you need to set up, perhaps only one per address? In which case, modify one address "The Flat, 70 Arcadia Ave..."
Like Jennifer, I installed two Hives on two separate boilers in a village hall, both on the same account. Each can be controlled completely independently of the other. Both appear on the App's home screen.
I suspect there was just some confusion in the forum's understanding of your requirements.
Yes, it could mean that you and your mum could adjust the other's temps, but that should be easy to avoid! But I also can't see why they cannot be kept completely separate, on different accounts if you preferred.
I may be missing something, and Tado could be different to Hive, but I can't see how.

Thanks, that is interesting re your village hall.

I think our situation at home is unusual for a house, so you may well be correct re people not understanding, I will put up a question about that again and see if I get any further information.    Meantime, re your questions........

1. Yes both The same make and type, just one a 32kW and one an 11kW.  Both have 2 external pumps for heating and HW so no motorised valves

2.  2 separate  vented  HW cylinders.  Originally the control systems were identical 2 channel programmable timers, now the tado controls the main house system

3.  Photos do not seem to work for me, I am not very IT savvy, but the programmable timer is a newish Danfoss 2  channel with separate time  settings for the CH and the HW.   Temperatures are controlled by TRVs and  cylinder stat, and ultimately the boiler stat.  One small rad acts  as a bypass .  No separate wall mounted thermostat.    Has been working well in this way for 35 years, and still does.

4.    For HW on tado you set up a schedule of on/off times, just like on any timer, very easy to do.

5.   Yes, my husband installed tado, it was straightforward, we never pay anyone to do something he can do!    

There is a dongle thing you plug into your router, called the internet bridge, a receiver that replaces the programmable timer, so talks to the boiler,  and a wireless thermostat that sits in the living room and is apparently needed for the HW, but does not necessarily need to be used to control the room temperature.  

Then the rads have the smart TRV heads to control the individual room temperatures and times, there are 12 of those, some grouped as one "room" with one being the recording device.  tado only allows 10 "rooms" to be set up.  All devices can call for heat and turn on the boiler.
We also have 4 other rads with just the manual TRVs as these are rarely used rads, and the smart TRV heads are expensive!   Plus we already used up the 10 room allowance.

ThisIsWeird

Big bludy house!!!

Ok, you clearly know what you are doing

Having two pumps instead of motorised valves is new to me, but - hey - if it works. You clearly got the Tado running in the main house with this setup, so the only issue is the seemingly 'clash' between having two Tados on the same Router and/or IP?

Have you tried going direct to Tado themselves about this? Who answers on their forum - actual Tado technical staff, or well-meaning users?

jennifernil

Mainly other users, but a fair few are knowledgable, tado do not reply.   There is however a helpline, so we could try that, but apparently they are not that quick at answering.

Mmm....house is fairly big, 320 sq m including integral double garage and the granny flat.    My Mum is no longer around, so we are using her bedroom and bathroom for visitors, who are not that frequent but tend to descend in large groups,  and have made her lounge into a study !!!!!! sewing room.   Kitchen is extra storage plus a space for OH to use for hobbies.   Living rooms are all upstairs for max sunlight and good views, we are south-facing, on a fairly steep hill.

The house was built to our own design in 1988  .     2 Potterton Neataheat boilers, which never missed a beat in the 34/35 years, but of course were now inefficient, 4 Grundfoss pumps , of which only one recently needed to be replaced in that time.  Never fancied motorised valves due to reliability.  We retained the newish pump and have 3 new Grundfoss that seem to adjust their own speed.  The original Danfoss TRVs were replaced about 15 years back as they were frequently sticking.

Our son keeps saying we should downsize, but it is a good house, exactly what we wanted, we know everything about it, and moving here in Scotland is very expensive!   Especially as we would want a bungalow, and to either stay in this area or move nearer our daughter who is only 4 miles away.    Both areas are expensive.   Plus,  we installed solar panels 12 years back so still have 13 years to go on our very good FIT, if we live that long!

So, instead of moving we are future-proofing as far as possible in that we now have the possibility to live mainly all on one level, the utility room  is downstairs, and the space to install a stair lift if/when necessary.  We  have installed walk in showers instead of showers over baths.

So it would be convenient, though not essential, to have better control of that second boiler.

jennifernil

FreeBear said:

ThisIsWeird said:

jennifernil said:

This is the  problem, we do not know why, but this has been stated to be the case on the tado community forum.

Do not want to spend the money and then find it does not work!

We only have the one internet in the house

Can I suggest we investigate this properly to find out 'why', before going any further? It would be nuts to have two different systems if it isn't needed.
I wonder if it's to do with the accounts you need to set up, perhaps only one per address? In which case, modify one address "The Flat, 70 Arcadia Ave..."

The other possible reason could be that every Tado device has a fixed IP address - That would cause conflicts if you had two devices trying to connect to the same hub/router. But no manufacturer would ship a device with a fixed IP address without some means of changing it.

In the OP's shoes, I'd probably get a second Tado from Screwfix, power it up on the bench and test. If it falls over due to wifi conflicts, Screwfix will refund without question (as long as it is returned within 30 days).

Thanks, yes I had come around to thinking we could try out a Wiser system that way, but if the tado comes in at the same price, we could try that first.  I will look into it.