Cold wall - condensation

moneysaver1978

We have a built-in wardrobe spanning from one end to the other in our bedroom. Custom built and MDF-type I think (done before we purchased the property).

We noticed condensation and dampness which we are dealing with via ventilation, dehumidifier, and these disposable damp capture things. And of course ensuring that no coats are near the walls!

However, these are temporary and I’d like to address properly in the spring - what sort of approaches could we do to resolve this? 

The walls are solid wall with no cavity. Cannot see any issues from outside but will assess properly with a tall ladder!

FreeBear

moneysaver1978 said:

We have a built-in wardrobe spanning from one end to the other in our bedroom. Custom built and MDF-type I think (done before we purchased the property).

We noticed condensation and dampness which we are dealing with via ventilation, dehumidifier, and these disposable damp capture things. And of course ensuring that no coats are near the walls!

However, these are temporary and I’d like to address properly in the spring - what sort of approaches could we do to resolve this? 

The walls are solid wall with no cavity. Cannot see any issues from outside but will assess properly with a tall ladder!

Built in furniture is a pain in the [redacted]. I have the same sort of problem here, and will be insulating the walls with ~75mm of Celotex/Kingspan once the wardrobes have been removed (slowly clearing out the crap, and life is getting in the way at the moment).

Already insulated the exterior walls in one room, and it has made a huge difference both to the condensation and the warmth of the space - Well worth doing.

Depending on how your wardrobe is constructed, just fixing a 25mm thick layer of Celotex between the wall & side panel may well be enough to reduce condensation to a minimum. A photo or two would help so that we can advise further.

ThisIsWeird

A photo would help.

But in essence I think the solution would require a layer of good insulation placed directly against the wall, and ventilation provided for the cupboard for when the doors are closed. Eg, a series of holes drilled in the unit floor, and more in its roof.

You may wish to add to that a low wattage heater - 40W or so - on a timer inside.

Are the units removable to allow this work?

moneysaver1978

Thank you both!

No side panels (although there are panels in the back) but we can see that a piece of wallpaper are coming away slightly. We would dearly love to have an EWA done but sadly not in a position currently to go down that road.

The wardrobe goes is floor to ceiling, side to side - very big and amble space lol. The wall is against the neighbour.

Will post some photos later - cannot upload via phone for some reason.

Chickereeeee

moneysaver1978 said:

We have a built-in wardrobe spanning from one end to the other in our bedroom. Custom built and MDF-type I think (done before we purchased the property).

We noticed condensation and dampness which we are dealing with via ventilation, dehumidifier, and these disposable damp capture things. And of course ensuring that no coats are near the walls!

However, these are temporary and I’d like to address properly in the spring - what sort of approaches could we do to resolve this? 

The walls are solid wall with no cavity. Cannot see any issues from outside but will assess properly with a tall ladder!

Ideally, you need to insulate the wall from inside. The thicker the insulation the better, within reason. 25mm and above would almost certainly cure the problem. Insulating plaster board would work too.

BUT you could try insulating lining paper (various makes available). Usually about 4mm thick, it is not going to prevent much heat loss, but it can - in marginal cases - raise the wall surface temperature enough to reduce condensation and mould.  The benefit is that it is fairly cheap and easy to apply. If it doesn't work, just remove and try another way.

https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/advice/insulating-wallpaper

 (Nb. I don't know if there is any reason you cannot put two layers on!)

ThisIsWeird

moneysaver1978 said:

The wardrobe goes is floor to ceiling, side to side - very big and amble space lol. The wall is against the neighbour.

I'm surprised you are having these problems, then - a 'party' wall is more 'internal' than external', and I wouldn't expect it to be particularly cold.

Check your photos are below - I think - 5MP? The site is usually really good for adding photos.

moneysaver1978

Photos as promised!



I managed to borrow a thermal camera:



Happy to add insulation on the wall sides but would the insulation board (PIR?) not mean condensation is behind/hidden?

Thank you again for your insights!

markin

I don't see any ventilation, you need to cut a big hole in the bottom of the door and cover it with a grill, then probably one at the top also, or lots of small holes.

Or replace with Louvre Doors.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Louvre-Door-Internal-Cupboard-Wardrobe/dp/B086ZCTY4M/ 

ThisIsWeird

moneysaver1978 said:

Photos as promised!



I managed to borrow a thermal camera:



Happy to add insulation on the wall sides but would the insulation board (PIR?) not mean condensation is behind/hidden?

Thank you again for your insights!

Good info!
With the thermal camera, is the dark blue/black the coldest bits? And they are pretty much restricted to the RH panel - which IS an outside wall?
Ok, your top photos. The second one shows what appears to be water damage to the centre of that thick MDF side panel? And that panel looks to be around 18mm thick? And it's stone cold?!
Wow. That just seems a bit weird. MDF has a reasonable insulation value of its own, so I really wouldn't expect the surface of that RH panel to be so cold as to have condensation from the room forming on it. Just how bad is that patch? Is it fluffing up? Does it feel soft? And it's pretty localised?
If so, I suspect - but obviously don't know - that it's water penetration from outside, coming through the external wall. Anything suspicious out there - any leaking gutters or downpipes? Cracks in the tender?
Then there's the peeling paper - where is that? Hang on! That's a closeup of the second pic?! Ok, that even more shouts 'penetrating' to me. That ain't condensation, that's a 'leak' from outside.
I think.

stuart45

Have you got a photo of the outside?

moneysaver1978

ThisIsWeird said:

Good info!
With the thermal camera, is the dark blue/black the coldest bits? And they are pretty much restricted to the RH panel - which IS an outside wall?

Ok, your top photos. The second one shows what appears to be water damage to the centre of that thick MDF side panel? And that panel looks to be around 18mm thick? And it's stone cold?!
Wow. That just seems a bit weird. MDF has a reasonable insulation value of its own, so I really wouldn't expect the surface of that RH panel to be so cold as to have condensation from the room forming on it. Just how bad is that patch? Is it fluffing up? Does it feel soft? And it's pretty localised?
If so, I suspect - but obviously don't know - that it's water penetration from outside, coming through the external wall. Anything suspicious out there - any leaking gutters or downpipes? Cracks in the tender?
Then there's the peeling paper - where is that? Hang on! That's a closeup of the second pic?! Ok, that even more shouts 'penetrating' to me. That ain't condensation, that's a 'leak' from outside.
I think.

Yep! Blue/black are the coldest parts. There're no side panels so we are seeing an actual wall (with a bit of wallpaper!). I got the thermal camera as I wanted to make sure that the loft insulation is properly done and to make plans for early 2024 to address any cold spots.

The patch (on both ends) isn't that bad - although when we moved in, we did spot some mould which we treated with an anti-mould paint. When I run my hand through, it does feel like condensation (similar to what I see on the windows), hand is clean (none of these white chalk or bubbling) and it doesn't always happen. So unless I am mistaken, I don't think it is a penetrating leak coming from outside however, I am happy to be corrected!

stuart45 said:

Have you got a photo of the outside?

Yep!



I did initially wonder about that black pipe but it is on the neighbour's wall.