Elnur Gabbarron heaters

Scot_39

What heating was in the property before the storage heaters were fited ?

How hot was the house before, for how ma y hours a day and how large the bills ?

Electric heating is expensive cf gas - and E7 rates split day and night are very regional and very supplier dependent.

Gas c7p / kWh
SR electric c27p/kWh
Looking at likes of EDF / Eon regional tables
E7 NIGHT c15p
E7 DAY c35p

So you have to be careful about making sure you maximise night use vs day balance.

Anything less than c42% night means e7 likely more expensive.
(42% is only the assumed cost split when Ofgem set the seperate average multirate electric cap - suppliers are free to set different day night splits within that total cap - one could be 15 vs 35, another 20vs32 etc) 

From memory a user with  the Elnur EcombiHHR nsh model said you do need to configure the charge time window to match meter switching (Dimplex say the opposite for dual wired quantums - factory default is fine as assumes no specific slot jusg uses as available iirc) and not completely disable the use of the supplementary day rate charge iirc the so called balancing element on elnurs (so set to a min of 1 hr not 0 - if want device to adapt to daily need).

And again from memory - by default it is set to allow upto edit from manual below default is set = upto 5 hrs of peak charging on its topup element.  C1.1kW rated on larger 3.5kW rated main elements model.

Can you confirm exact models and how you have configured vs tge meter timings now in GMT ?

The EcoHHR Ecombi series is shipped with a night 18C day 21C default profile - see user and instruction manuals for more detail of parameters for that series at 

https://www.elnur.co.uk/product/ecombi-hhr-high-heat-retention-storage-heaters/

And looks like default e7 charge time is 00:00 to 07:00 - to 80% max capacity - (so on largest model guess might be something like 0,8x7x3.5kW = 20kWh - but not necessarily release it all - if not required ) which won't match many uk regions exactly.

And note there is at least one if not 2 supply regions that support split e7 timings - something like 2 hrs start pre midnight, 1-2 hr back on peak then 5 hrs early AM)


You mention 21 setpoint but only achieving 15 ?

But £15 a day is still c45-50kWh at SR - which should be a reasonable amount of heat for most - at least modern smaller - homes.

How high were daily winter bills last year ?

There is no intrinsic reason to assume Elnur any less efficient - but they could be wrongly sized or badly configured so using more at day rate - upto 5.5kWh on largest model balance element at defaults if EcoHHR - and upto maximum capacity if get main charge window wrong vs meter.

And on initial power on - likely to use balance element  - until can charge overnight.  And even if not - may "overcharge" reserve until learns doesn't need to.

Do you have day night readings for first few days after powering on ?

Can you confirm exact model so we can check manuals for those ?

QrizB

Earpy said:

They are storage heaters and they are connected to the E7 supply and also the day rate.

Good

Earpy said:

I have spoken to the technical department at the suppliers of these heaters and they have changed the settings many times to no avail.

That's a shame, bit it suggests that the heaters are correctly configured.

Earpy said:

I think I am looking to see if anybody has actually challenged whether these heaters were suitable as replacements for elderly people.

For an all-electric house, storage heaters on E7 are usually the cheapest option for heating. There are many people on this forum, even elderly ones, who are quite content with their storage heaters.

A heat pump would be cheaper to run but has higher capital costs and not all properties are easily converted.

As others have asked, what sort of heating was there fitted before the storage heaters were installed? What did it cost to run?

Earpy said:

My mum is 80 and the general house temperature is 15 degs even though the heaters are set at 21. The daily cost is very expensive. I am just looking for a solution as nobody wants to take responsibility neither the supplier or the company who provided them under the government scheme

I'm not sure quite what you are expecting anybody to "take responsibility" for?

matelodave

Of course they are suitable for elderly people, in fact more so than some other forms of heating as they are designed to operate on off-peak electricity and release heat throughout the day and night and they are cheapest form of electric heating apart from a heatpump when there's no gas or oil alternative.

The first question to ask is are they correctly sized for the property. There's probably nothing actually wrong with the heaters but they do have to be large enough to store sufficient heat overnight to deliver it throughout the day.

The responsibilty for the performance of the heaters is on whomever specified, installed and configured them, not ELNUR who just supply them. They have no idea whether they've been correctly specified or installed.. Likewise they have to be set up and used properly to get maximum performance and minimum running costs.

A big problem that I've noticed with some HHR heaters is that they can be a bit undersized and then rely on the boost/balancing element to take up the slack during the day but that uses peak rate electricity. The largest one, is rated at around 3480kw which means that it can only store 24.4kwh of heat which equates to around 1.4kw per hour for 17 hours. Which may then need to be boosted by a 1kw peak rate element if they are left on all day. There's a possibility that the heaters are either undersized or there arent enough of them to heat the place adequately

To do it properly you need to do heat loss calculations taking into account the temperatures that you want and the construction of the building. A wet finger in the air guess based on a room size isn't really sufficient, espcially if you need the heat the place 24/7.

Gerry1

matelodave said:

The largest one, is rated at around 3480kw which means that it can only store 24.4kwh of heat which equates to around 1.4kw per hour for 17 hours. Which may then need to be boosted by a 1kw peak rate element if they are left on all day.

The largest one, is rated at around 3480W which means that it can only store 24.4kWh of heat, which equates to around 1.4kW emitted for 17 hours.

FTFY !

matelodave

what does that mean 

MultiFuelBurner

matelodave said:

what does that mean 

It's sad internet sarcasm slang when someone corrects you - Fixed That For You.

Not a fan myself but it takes all sorts

Gerry1

There aren't many 3.4MW NSHs around, and its maximum output is either 1.4kW for 17 hours or 1.4kW per hour for 17 hours.

Was Laura your tutor? 😈